Hole collapse and current white whale

[RayCo]

So, I was clearing some brush in my backyard the other day and I bumped into one of my 15,000 stumps in my property. It was about 8" in diameter and just a few inches above the surface of the ground. So, no big deal, I turned around and started digging with my BX24. Three days later, I have a hole that's about five feet deep and ten feet in diameter.

It turns out that the ground where I was digging used to be about two feet higher, there was actually a triple-tree stump down, with each nub being about 14" in diameter. The timing was good, because I was in need of a new white whale. I was out digging tonight and I had to stop, because I started getting nervous about the hole caving in while I was digging. Has anyone ever had this happen? I had the stabilizer pads about 20" from the edge of the hole, which was about a 5 foot drop. It just didn't seem like a good idea having all that weight on that tiny stabilizer footprint, in addition to the force being put on them by digging.

Just being too paranoid here? I just really wasn't interested in falling into the hole, hitting my face on the stump, and having my tractor be vertical. I never read Moby Dick, but I'm pretty sure Ahab went down with his whale. Well, that was dumb. Thoughts or experiences?

 

[megaboz]

It really depends on the soil type/condition, hard solid soil, probably would be ok if you're 20 incehs from the edge of the whole.

If you really don't want to see the bottom of the hole face first take a chain/tow strap and tie the front to something that won't move, like another tree or a vehicle.

I'd tell you to bury the FEL in front of you, but if it tips in backwards, it would just pull out of the dirt anyways. Extra weight might help in the front, but I think ankoring the front end is probably the best bet and easiest. You could also sure up the side where the tractor is parked with lumber, but that is a lot of work too.

I'm sure other members probably have better ideas.

 

[KeithInSpace]

I've been close to the edge of a hole without trouble, but not one large enough to swallow my tractor. On the surface, I'd concur with the idea of tying the FEL off to something...truck perhaps.

As mentioned, relative comfort level would very much depend on the stability of the soil and the presence of water. If it is tough clay with bits of organics or root matter or even heavily organic with heavy root mat, there is probably enough there to make failure of the lip fairly impossible. If it is sandy, that wouldn't work too well. We have something we call "sugar sand", it can fracture most anywhere...seems stable and can stand vertical, but there isn't much holding it together and it MELTS with ANY moisture. If you're hitting any moisture at all, or hitting pudding-like ML or CL type material, I'd see that as a huge negative that would force me to a more conservative route.

For the record, I've found one of those "buried" double stumps. It was the first stump I'd ever pulled out with my tractor and took quite a while...this was before I even had my backhoe, so it was tough work.

HAVE FUN!!! And stay safe. Sounds like you have a little project on your hands.

 

[MarkV]

If it were me I would dig a ramp into the hole and work from that. If the hole is that deep already you will most likely need a ramp to drag the stump out anyway. Sounds like the stump will be a bit much for the BX to lift out.

MarkV

 

[EddieWalker]

I like the ramp idea, but have never done so myself.

I don't worry too much about the wall of a hole colapsing, but worry more about getting too close to the edge and falling in from the force of the hoe stick pulling the tractor around. When I start to get that nervous feeling, I listen to it and make an adjustment.

You can also spread the load on the rear end by having the tires partially touch the ground. I normally have them off the ground, but in soft conditions, I will deal with the bounce effect, and have the back tires touching the ground.

Just be sure to fill it back in before it rains out. Filling in a hole full of water is just about impossible to get solid ground. When I've made this mistake, I had quicksand for months and months afterwords. Grass will grow over it and you can walk on it, but a tractor will just disapear if you drive over it. There is no stability on a hole that is filled with water in it, or even when it's sloppy mud.

If I have a hole fill up with water on me, I will either let the water evaporate or drain away. If I'm in a hurry or the water just doesn't seem to go away, I'll scoop it out with my backhoe. Then I dig out the sloppy mud until I get to a solid bottom. Then I can fill the hole with clean dirt and get good compaction.

For compaction those holes, I just drive over the fill dirt with my front tires and a load of dirt in the bucket. I do this with every load that I put into it, and then after it's all full. Those front tires have allot of weight on them and they are small enough to concentrate that weight onto two small areas. Just keep going over it until it stops sinking and it's all solid. Then smooth it out and plant whatever.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[RayCo]

Well, I took the easy way out here. I asked my father-in-law to come up this weekend with his fullsize extend-a-hoe backhoe to finish this off for me.

I think I'd probably be into the ramp idea if my to-do list weren't so long or if I didn't have so many more stumps to deal with. It'd be kinda fun, well, unless I encountered my septic tank which is right inline with where the ramp would be.

Thanks y'all.

 

[rdsaustintx]

Did I dream it or does the manual say to put lumber cribbing down when digging graves??

 

[irwin]

This one is still in the hole, ran out of time. I'll cut the rest of the wood off and see if I can pull the root ball out....if not I'll have to dig a ramp.

That's the wife prying rocks out of the roots trying to lighten it up. Not sure what it weighs, but my L35 couldn't pull it out. Don't abuse your BX24 too much.

 

[RayCo]

This one is still in the hole, ran out of time. I'll cut the rest of the wood off and see if I can pull the root ball out....if not I'll have to dig a ramp.

That's the wife prying rocks out of the roots trying to lighten it up. Not sure what it weighs, but my L35 couldn't pull it out. Don't abuse your BX24 too much.

Uh, that's quite large.

 

[BXpanded]

Did I dream it or does the manual say to put lumber cribbing down when digging graves??

Those holes don't just show up by themselves!
All kidding aside, digging a good grave is really quite difficult. Some years ago, I was working on a water main installation job in what we might call a "not so affluent" neighborhood. There was a small church with a little graveyard in the area. One afternoon, three older gentlemen approached me and quite hesitantly asked if I would be willing to dig a grave for one of the just deceased church members. I dug it that afternoon after work. ( before you ask, no charge) Think about digging a six foot deep hole with all 4 sides vertical, square and plumb with a flat bottom. Kind of like a big shoebox in the ground. Try it next time you have some hole to dig, or just for fun. Hint: keeping the ends square and plumb with sharp corners at the bottom is the toughest part. You can't see the wall closest to the machine.