Home Inspections

Harv · Jan 15, 2002

if we sell it, I'll have a tractor and implements, shop full of tools and equipment, etc. for
sale, too

I understand about those "combination of factors" that can sneak up on ya, and the only thing that's really constant in life is change, but it's hard to imagine Bird not puttin' around the ol' garden on his li'l Bota or tinkerin' in his shop.

Hope it all works out for you. Who knows? Maybe you'll wind up with a better connection to TBN. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

rlk · Jan 15, 2002

Buckeye, I am a licensed home inspector in North Carolina. My best advice to you is not to worry about the inspector. I have done hundreds of inspections in NC, and have met many very nervous home owners. The listing realtor will usually request the home owner not be present during the inspection, however, many homeowners insist on attending. In NC, the home inspector can not discuss his findings with anyone other than his client unless the client gives written permission to the home inspector.

In NC, in order to get a home inspectors license, you have to be an engineer, an architect, or a general contractor. Then you have to pass a state administered exam - usually takes about 4 hours for the exam. After passing the exam, you are then given a license. If you are not an engineer, architect or gen contractor, you can obtain a license by getting a licensed inspector to sponsor you, and by performing 100 inspections over a year under the licensed inspectors guidance. Then you have to take the exam mentioned above.

In NC we are required to inspect many items, some of which I'll list here:
Structural: floors, foundation, walls, columns or piers, ceilings, roofs
Exterior: wall cladding; flashings; trim; doors; windows; garage doors and operators; decks; balconies; stoops; steps; porches and applicable railings; eaves; soffits; fascias; vegation; grading; drainage; driveways; patios; walkways and retaining walls.
Roofing: roof coverings; drainage systems; flashings; skylights, chimneys and roof penetrations; signs of leaks or condensation on building components.
Plumbing: water distribution system; drain, waste and vent system; hot water systems; fuel storage and distribution systems; sump pumps.
Electrical: service entrance conductors; service equipment; grounding equipment; fuses/circuit breakers; main and distribution panels; amperage and voltage ratings; branch circuit conductors; operation of outlets, lights and ceiling fans; polarity and grounding of all receptacles within 6 feet of interior plumbing fixtures; ground fault circuit interrupters; smoke detectors.
Heating: normal operating controls; automatic safety controls; chimneys, flues and vents; heat distribution systems;.
Central air conditionins: normal operating controls; distribution systems.
Interior: walls; ceiling; floors; steps; stairways; balconies; ralings; counters; cabinets; doors and windows;
Insulation and ventilation: insulation; bentilation of attics and foundation; kitchen, bathroom and laundry ventins systems.
Built-in Kitchen appliances: permanently installed dishwasher; range, cook top and permanently installed oven; trash compactor; garbage disposal; bentilation equipment or range hood; permanently installed microwave oven.

All of the above items have to be documented as to their condition. The conditions are put into 4 categories:
Repair: Systems or components that do not function as intended, allowing for normal wear and tear, or adversely affect the habitability of the dwelling.
Investigate further: Systems or components which appear to warrant further investigation by a qualified specialist or require observation over a period of time.
Maintenance: routine upkeep of a component or system to keep it in proper operating condition.
Improvement: Recommend upgrade to enhance the function, efficiency or safety of the home. Completion of these items is recommended as time and budget permit.

Naturally the Repair and Investigate further categories are the ones most buyers are concerned with.

Now to answer your specific questions. The inspectors I know are not there to tear the house apart. There is nothing to be gained by the inspector severely down grading the house. Some sellers feel the inspector has to find something wrong to justify his fee. I disagree with this, however, I have only inspected one house where there was not a problem found. We are not concerned with cosmetic items unless it could be a safety hazard or affects one of the above areas. For example: I'm not concerned with wallpaper that is fading or has come loose at a seam. I am concerned about vinyl flooring that has come loose at a seam if the seam is in the middle of the room, and could be a tripping hazard.

A house, or the components in the house do not have to be modern. A house with aluminum wiring may have safety issues with some people, however, if everything checks out with the system, we only mention the fact that aluminum wiring was used, but then point out no problems were found with it. Also, a house with only 2 pronged outlets is o.k., as long as no defects are found, however, if someone has replaced the 2 pronged outlets with 3 pronged outlets, and has not grounded the outlets, then we have to list that as a defect.

Several people have posted that they had their houses inspected prior to listing. This is an excellent idea as it gives the owner a good indication of existing problems, and gives him a chance to repair those items at his leisure as opposed to finding out about a problem after a contract is signed, then having to either re-negotiate the price, or quickly find a contractor. To anyone thinking about selling, do yourself a favor and get an inspection done before you list the house.

When I do an inspection, I give the client a notebook with my report in it, along with a picture of the defects. The front cover is a picture of the front of the house, and the back cover is a picture of the back of the house. I also include pictures of things that are good about the house: for example: I will take a picture of where the water filter is located to remind the buyer to change the filter; or if an electrical panel is especially neat, I'll take a picture of that as well. I don't want the inspection report to be all negative, but want it to be a fair assessment of the condition of the house the day it was inspected. My report can then be displayed in the house for future buyers to see. If any repairs were made, the receipts showing the repair can be stapled to the picture of the defect to show the repair has been made. Sometimes the home owner will call me back to reinspect after repairs are made. Assuming everything was repaired satisfactorily, I'll write another report that deletes the repaired defects.

If you have any questions about inspections, don't hesitate to contact me.

rlk · Jan 15, 2002

Buckeye, I have looked at some of the home inspection reports from California,and I am not impressed with them at all. The ones I saw were very much lacking in content.

If you want a good book on DIY home inspections, check out: The Complete Book of Home Inspection by Norman Becker. A few years back when I was taking the NC home inspectors exam, I bought a copy for around $17. It has a 5 page home inspection check list in the back to use. The problem with check lists like this is they don't tell you how to check things like electrical outlets, temperature differentials for the Air Conditioning, etc. You have to read the book to understand how to do it.

Please let us know how you make out after the inspector visits your house.

Bird · Jan 15, 2002

Maybe you'll wind up with a better connection to TBN

That would almost be a certainty, even if I had to buy a satellite system./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

buckeye · Jan 15, 2002

RLK:

Thanks much for the informative posts. I'm feeling okay about the inspection, its just one of those things you worry about. Especially when we want this house to sell so we can start on our new home. Once again, thanks for the input and I'll update you all on the results.

cedarranch · Jan 15, 2002

In NC, the home inspector can not discuss his findings with anyone other than his client unless the client gives written permission to the home inspector. 

I purchased a new home in Alabama in 98 but my old home did not sell until 5-99. The first and only clients wanted an inspection before buying. The lady that inspected it listed 243 items on this 30 year old home and below are a few stated as on the report...
-Inadequate grade at rear of home
-Poor roof
-Lack of fire retardant dryer vent
-unsecured flooring supports
The buyers wanted the first 50 repaired before they would purchase and since I was paying two mortgages I was eager to sell but I did not understand many of these statements and she would not discuss them. After a number of phone calls to the buyers and mortgage company, I received a fax with more details.
-Inadequate grade at rear of home
she said the rear yard was flat and needed to regraded so water ran away from the home. Estimate $7200.00 but yard had 14deg downslope
-Poor roof
Roof was in poor condition and needed replacing. Roofer signed statement that the 8 year old roof was in normal condition.
-Lack of fire retardant dryer vent
Dryer venting may present fire hazard. Dryer venting was aluminum. Home depot/Lowes/Ace/etc only carry aluminum and vynal vents. OEM says they only carry those but make no warranty about fire rating
-unsecured flooring supports
Flooring pillars are not cemented.Had some cement blocks stacked out of the way under the house next to door (3 to the right of the door and 3 to the left side of the door not touching the flooring - about 8 inches away. Gave them to the neighbor.
Called mortgage company with this an other items. They said they have had problems before using her and would send out another inspector. He talked to me about the original report and he only found 3 repairs needed and 18 items recommended. BUT at closing I got the BAD news with the closing cost.
$500 1st inspectors fee
$500 2nd inspectors fee
$75 for roofing inspection note
$50 for plumber inspection note for gas pipes
$45 for quote to regrade yard
Plus I had spent over $1000 dollars on other items from the original report that were not needed according the the second inspector.
Enough to make you never want to sell another house!

BobT · Jan 15, 2002

cedarranch,

I understand from other posts that in Texas & North Carolina, among other states, home inspectors are trained and licensed. This is good.

However, in many cases, these 200 and 300 item lists of "defects" and "suggested" repair items are ludicrous. In our home, an inspector said, for example, that the mantle over our fireplace was not according to "code".

Well, the fact is that AT THE TIME the fireplace was built, it met the then-current code. There was absolutely no danger, fire hazard, etc. to the fireplace as it was. Yet, the inspector created the idea in the mind of the buyer, that this fireplace could burn the house down.

The tone and manner of the Inspector, as well as the form and format of the "report" can make or break a house. I would NEVER let an inspector go through my property without being there every step of the way. I would also videotape the inspection process.

Most of these inspectors today use computer software, and usually deliver a virtual "book" (40-50 pages or more) of "problems" or potential problems on any house. Let's face it, a 20 year old home is going to have things here and there that will need attention sooner or later. Who doesn't do work on their home to maintain it. But in almost EVERY case, buyers USE the report to force expensive repairs or replacements at the last minute. This is just a fact, and almost always damaging to the seller.

In our case, the inspector, solely by his tone and manner, made the prospective buyer back out of the deal---even though our house is for sure one of the best in the county.

While there are some good inspectors, I am sure, we got one of the worst, who cost us a bundle. And, we had and have no recourse whatsoever.

TerryinMD · Jan 15, 2002

I have had both good and bad inspectors. Praise to the good. The bad.... read on.

I had a similar situation as Cedarranch trying to sell my mothers house to close the estate. The prospective buyer wanted to buy the house for his daughter and wanted to get a decent deal. Okay, I can respect that. We were asking $59.9K which was in line in the area. The house is over 70 yrs old and needed some upgrades. But what came back was atrocious. I don't have all of the details in front of me, but basically nothing was good about the house. The inspector came in with the prospective buyer and did the inspection. Seems a little unscrupulous to me... but what do I know. By the time the inspection was done, they had tallied up about $30k of needed repairs. The prospective buyer was "willing" to negotiate some and was going to do the work himself. Hmmmm - what does that mean. He offered to buy the house at $40k. I just about joined my mother at that point. I got so mad that I called up our real estate agent who was talking to other real estate agent at that time and told them the following: "Tell the buyer - no. Wait! Tell him - hell no and to take his offer and shove it up his a$$". I felt sorry for my agent, but enough was enough. I apologized later and the agent told me that he was thinking the same thing.

If all the states were like NC and TX where the inspectors are qualified and certified, the horror stories would be minimized or eliminated.

Question - Are the inspection held liable for any mistakes or errors presented in their reports? Are they held accountable and liable for their findings?

Terry

DVerbarg · Jan 15, 2002

Is there any legal recourse against the inspectors for "damages" when an inspector is "overzealous"? Do state laws protect them? Or is there a clause in real estate contracts that prohibits action against inspectors?

It seems that a few well publicized awards against inspectors might send a wake-up call that they better have grounds for what they say. Could it be considered libel or slander?

I understand the need for inspectors but don't like dealing with them when I'm selling a house. There are very few "reasonable" ones around here. Most of them seem to enjoy some ego/power trip in their ability to snatch tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars from others. (Yes, they can also protect a potential buyer from being taken by an unscrupulous seller --ever see the quirky movie "Money Pit")

Feels good to vent a little...

rlk · Jan 15, 2002

BobT, don't know about in Indiana, but in NC, a home inspector can not use the word "code" in his report since we are not "code inspectors" - only the people who work for the county/city can insepect for code violations.

We can also not use the word "termite" in any of our reports. Termite inspectors are specially trained, and licensed, and they are the only ones who can inspect for termites. We can say that a house appears to have damage from wood destroying insects or appears to have an active infestation of wood destroying insects, but again can not use the word termite.

The political loop holes you have to jump through are interesting.