Homier Implements

DanMan1 · Sep 6, 2005

Egon, I agree with you 100%.
I wasn't refering to the education system's part in an 'engineer's' degree, I meant the job tiltle aspect of it. I know in Malaysia, many people can get a job title as an 'engineer' with no real engineering degree, or background. The same job duties would be classified as a tech. job here in the U.S. in most cases.

The tractor forum and many other techincal forums on the net attract a lot of smart people, many with no degree but with boat loads of experience. I frequent some of these other forums, and I can honestly tell you that some of the most offbase, out of touch comments have been made by people saying they are an engineer. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon · Sep 6, 2005

Ahh well;

I surely do not have an Engineering Degree!!

Perhaps some others may misrepresent reality a touch!!! or maybe a whole lot!!

I am envious of those whom have paid the piper to obtain a degree from an accredited establishment and be able to post their degrees. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon

nomad · Sep 9, 2005

( Nomad,
Maybe you are an 'engineer' but a good U.S. engineer combines a healthy compromise of theory with real world results. Materials mean nothing if it isn't reliable. )

US engineering is "paint" (make-up) engineering. They paint ST37 with orange+blue mixture which may cheat your eyes and you may miss engineering & science philosophy. Chinese may not be so good in that, paint in inharmonic color combination. You are concerned about "real world" results? OK. Agree. But, WHY don't you also ask WHY are Chinese products being broken on the first day? Results are output of a "reasons chain" and "material type" is one of main reasons. Without asking reasons, it is "paint" and "brainwashed" engineering. IF the SAME ST37 are being used in an implement by a western mfg and by a chinese mfg, then WHY is chinese mfg product being broken on the first day? Weld? Other reasons? OR, is there really a technical reason? Magnify / exaggerate "one bad" example of chinese products while consider it is a just an accidental manufacturing error when it is a western implement? Is this fair? This was done to japan products some decades ago and it has not worked. I am seeing the same about chinese products too. in the future, all will have to accept this "real world" result too.

Villengineer · Sep 13, 2005

What in the world are you trying to say here? Are you saying or implying that US engineers are cheating end-users or misleading them? If so I think you should really re-evaluate your position b/c you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
FYI the chances of a North American manufacturer using ST37 in their equipment is remote b/c that is a DIN specification and not readily available here. Your comparison to A53 is not valid b/c A53 is a specification for pipe ONLY. Most structural shapes and plate readily available here would be somewhat comparible to the higher grades of ST37, but the lower grades of ST37 are significantly weaker.
Obviously, saying all Chinese manufactured equipment is "bad" is wrong, just like saying all US manufactured equipment is "good" is wrong. However, the perception is based on far more than "one bad example". This discussion was specifically about those products distributed by Homier and they have a fairly established record of being of lower strength, poor workmanship, significantly less expensive, and they happen to be made in China. Obviously, not all their products are like this, but based on consumers' experiences the vast majority are.
FYI, some decades ago products made in Japan were "cheap junk" and the reputation was deserved. However, they made significant changes in how they conducted business (by the way most of these changes were highly influenced by US engineers and business practices) and now they have a deserved reputation of producing top notch goods. Over history this has been true of many countries, including the US.
China is pretty much at that same point Japan was many years ago, but have not made that change yet. While some good products are being made, they are eclipsed by the higher volume lower end products they are exporting. It is my opinion that until they allow their culture to change (as Japan did) they will struggle to achieve that level.

RobS · Sep 13, 2005

Play nice guys, or the thread will be closed.

nomad · Sep 13, 2005

Use your AISI/SAE equivalents or BS or UNI or JIS or whatever you want. I have given ST37 and 52 examples because these are steels mainly used in implements and most (more than 90%) of implements in USA today are imported products from Europe or Asia where this DIN standard is being used widely. You are missing my point. What I have been saying is that many of implements are designed according to ST52 steel, but, today most of implements being sold in the World, yes, that includes USA too are made of ST37 which is lower quality steel than ST52. Who (end users) have realized this? I guess only a few people have done that. I can safely say that Chinese implements like Homier's too are made of ST37 material. Then, staying in implement field, can we say that Chinese implements are not different in material types being used by other manufacturers in the world. Ok, now, we understand each others? By "paint" engineering, I meant "engineering giving much importance to appearence only". No, "paint engineering" is not only in USA, it is in the western world in general. But, this is off-topic, no need to go further. Btw, cheap junks are everywhere in the world. You see only Chinese cheap items these days because many countries are not in manufacturing field anymore, they are either in trade business or light industry. On the other hand, China has been dominant in manufacturing industry and we can see their many products with different qualities from poor to very good. Btw, we see also some products coming from countries like Taiwan that you can call good products. Eg. CNC milling machines. They are exported from Taiwan, but made in China actually. As a conclusion, if we are talking about manufacturing industry now, China has become like the World where we can sometimes see good, sometimes bad products. So, generalizing products of a company or two to whole China does not make sense.

DanMan1 · Sep 14, 2005

Nomad,

Question...

Which should an engineer have more pride in....

1) A reliable product made of inexpensive materials.

2) A product made of expensive materials, but is not so reliable.

Please, take your time, this is a trick question.

nomad · Sep 17, 2005

Trick question? Your question has contradiction. Here is my answer:

Word games are in their specializations of literature people. The word "reliable" is in their field, useless in engineering if proper things are not in their places. You can not have a more reliable product using less expensive material (unless you are inventing new things.)