Rotary Cutter Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing

   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #21  
There are a lot of good used flail shredders and flail mowers for sale on tractor house every week.


That SHOULD tell you something......After using them, people are trying to unload them......Too expensive to buy.....Too expensive to operate.....Too much loss of productivity..... Requires too much additional hp..........And with mediocre results to boot!




Old saying goes; "Numbers never lie"............

There is a perfectly good explaination why 95% of all commercial mowing is done with ROTARY mowers.

There is a perfectly good explaination why there are over 100 new rotary mowers sold for every one new flail mower.
 
   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #22  
I have a IH Farmall 706 and an old tank Bush Hog M160 13' 3 spindle mower (flat - not a bat wing). The tractor has 89 HP engine, 65 HP drawbar, 73 HP PTO (when new); weighs in the 8,000 pound range.

I personally wouldn't want a larger RC with my tractor size, unless it was only to be used for light mowing. The 13' with 73 PTO HP in 5' tall weeds is a pretty good lug. I mow at 4 MPH (3L), but have to use the TA on heavy patches when the engine starts to lug.

Personally, I think you need a 90 HP PTO or larger tractor. Even if you are only planning on mowing thin and short (light roughage) - unless your acreage is pretty flat - you will need a pretty heavy tractor or that batwing will pull you instead of you pulling it.

Hope this helps.
 
   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Thank you all for your input. The ground is flat. Pick up truck has the Pto right above rear bumper. Farmer before me used it for running elevators to fill grain bins and to pull large hopper wagons to town. Pretty well known truck in the neigborhood. Have heard that truck will be to light. Will try it as soon as ground freezes good. Still soft here in Ohio.
 
   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #24  
Thank you all for your input. The ground is flat. Pick up truck has the Pto right above rear bumper. Farmer before me used it for running elevators to fill grain bins and to pull large hopper wagons to town. Pretty well known truck in the neigborhood. Have heard that truck will be to light. Will try it as soon as ground freezes good. Still soft here in Ohio.

So, are you looking at using this truck to tow this mower? I might go to a tractor dealership and see if I could hook the PTO up to a Dyno to see how much HP it can put out before buying a mower to tow behind it.
Also, see what the minimum speeds are. Can it do 2-5 MPH with the engine at PTO speed without hurting anything in the transmission?

Aaron Z
 
   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #25  
2458n said:
Have heard that truck will be to light.

I saw a guy at an auction buy a BH 2615. He lived only a few miles away and thought he could pull it home with his 3/4 ton Chevrolet truck. He pulled the mower through the lot and when he touched his brakes to stop for traffic before entering the highway... The truck stoped but mower kept going, it curled his hitch down and underneath the truck. The truck didn't look no more than two or three years old ether.
 
   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #26  
That SHOULD tell you something......After using them, people are trying to unload them......Too expensive to buy.....Too expensive to operate.....Too much loss of productivity..... Requires too much additional hp..........And with mediocre results to boot!


You cannot make these generalities as each and every end users mowing situation is different

Old saying goes; "Numbers never lie"............


========================================================
"Your right flailmowers operate at greater speeds of rotation than rotary cutters one to one right angle gear box and flail mowers also cut finer as they have a greater number of cutting edges than any rotary cutter or rotary bat wing mower" of any size.

The simplicity in construction of a flail shredder with one gearbox and V belt pairing and twin rotor bearings with the massive construction of the typical flail shredders mower hood and full width tubular construction.

=========================================================

There is a perfectly good explaination why 95% of all commercial mowing is done with ROTARY mowers.

=========================================================
The explanation is the items opportunity cost, which is what one is willing to trade for another good or service in exchange for currency or barter.

Its simply a monetary issue as the first cost of a rotary mower of any size costs less in the initial purchase. The use of two or more gear boxes, V belts numerous universal joints and propeller shafts adds to the mix compared to a simple massive rotor and the two bearings that support the flailmower rotor at higher speeds of rotation.

Five miles an hour is still five miles an hour with any towed PTO implement.

If one does not purchase the properly sized towed P.T.O., powered implement for the prime mover it taxes the machine, and if the ground speeds are too fast for conditions any implement and implement carrier will have problems dealing with local conditions.

Flail shredders see more use and abuse than the typical bat wing rotary cutter in farm service per width of cut especially with ridge tillage used for irrigated cotton, potato's, sugar cane and sugar beets. As I have mentioned repeatedly a flail shredder of any manufacture operates at a faster speed of rotation within the shredder hood which I have described extensively.


With the 10 inch diameter of the larger 25 foot Hiniker flail shredder the rotor operates at 2,000 rpm providing 2 revolutions of the 10 inch diameter rotor for every revolution of the Power Take Off Shaft and the blade tip speed is 12,714 feet per minute. The 128 pairs of knives provide 2.5 inches of cutting edge per side slicer-5 inches per pair giving the end user 53.33 feet of cutting edge with the 20 foot width of the mower.



"Its a matter of preference and whether a person wants and needs the improved quality of cut for good sod or the shredding ability required for corn, cotton , potato or sugar cane stubble prior to fitting ground in the fall season or the following spring.



==========================================================
There is a perfectly good explaination why there are over 100 new rotary mowers sold for every one new flail mower.
==========================================================





"Yes there is; the explanation is they are less expensive to manufacture and do not require a sheet press roller to make the mower hood and they are an implement that requires less precision in manufacture trailed or mounted implement due to the simple box type welding construction and you simply get what you pay for because they are less expensive to mass produce from sheet steel using plasma or water jet cutters for the individual weldments.
The profit mark up for a retail sale of a rotary cutter is also greater due to its simplicity in construction and its lower weight in some models of rotary cutters.




One should not wonder why the new rotary cutters have safety chains and rubber flaps to cover the entrance width and discharge width of a mower
as they will hit things and throw them considerable distances. The manufacturers have added these "refinements" to reduce the possibility of ejecting an object at a high rate of speed and the chains and flaps reduce the possibility of the object that was impacted traveling very far IF the safety chains and flaps are intact.

In one example the King Cutter folks state in thier XB mower manual that no person should be within several hundred feet of one of thier mowers and mowing should be stopped if a person comes within several hundred feet of
one of their mowers in operation per the owners manual.


Our national highway system has created a need for mowing due simply to its design and construction during the Eisenhower Administration.

If General Eisenhower had not seen the Autobahn for first time when he entered Germany we may not have the mess we have to pay for now and will continue ot pay for in the future as he said "we need roads constructed like this in the United States" which already had an existing highway and Passenger Rail System which died by 1963 due to the new highway system and air travel by passenger jet.

What he failed to realise is simply the Autobahn was a very narrow corridor in a very small country consuming a very small amount of actual land mass in square area in relation to the German republics total size in square miles at the time. The reason rail travel is so easy in Europe is that it is simply a smaller land mass in total square area.

People dont think about it but the national highway system in the entire land mass of the United states has covered 3 percent of its surface square area from what I remember. This created drainage ditches and embankment ditches that require mowing most of which is not typically required by a pasenger rail network.


It has has created a money eating monster of enormous proportions relating to maintaining the rights of way by the most economical means possible which has created a secondary market for rotary cutters of massive proportions and the municipalites desire to hire to lowest bidder was created by the economic boondoggle of reduced revenues in these municipalites.
 
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   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #27  
Your right flailmowers operate at greater speeds of rotation than rotary cutters one to one right angle gear box and flail mowers also cut finer as they have a greater number of cutting edges than any rotary cutter or rotary bat wing mower" of any size.
Actually, tip speeds for flail mowers are about the same as tip speeds for rotary cutters.
RHINO RC20 flail mower: 12,620 FPM - RHINO | Flail Mowers | Row Crop Shredders
Woods BW2400X: 15,674 FPM - http://www.woodsonline.com/uploadedFiles/Products/literature/Batwing Rotary Cutters B04093.pdf (Page 11)

Aaron Z
 
   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #28  
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   / Horse power needed for 15ft. Batwing #29  
==========================================================





"Yes there is; the explanation is they are less expensive to manufacture and do not require a sheet press roller to make the mower hood and they are an implement that requires less precision in manufacture trailed or mounted implement due to the simple box type welding construction and you simply get what you pay for because they are less expensive to mass produce from sheet steel using plasma or water jet cutters for the individual weldments.
The profit mark up for a retail sale of a rotary cutter is also greater due to its simplicity in construction and its lower weight in some models of rotary cutters.




One should not wonder why the new rotary cutters have safety chains and rubber flaps to cover the entrance width and discharge width of a mower
as they will hit things and throw them considerable distances. The manufacturers have added these "refinements" to reduce the possibility of ejecting an object at a high rate of speed and the chains and flaps reduce the possibility of the object that was impacted traveling very far IF the safety chains and flaps are intact.

In one example the King Cutter folks state in thier XB mower manual that no person should be within several hundred feet of one of thier mowers and mowing should be stopped if a person comes within several hundred feet of
one of their mowers in operation per the owners manual.


Our national highway system has created a need for mowing due simply to its design and construction during the Eisenhower Administration.

If General Eisenhower had not seen the Autobahn for first time when he entered Germany we may not have the mess we have to pay for now and will continue ot pay for in the future as he said "we need roads constructed like this in the United States" which already had an existing highway and Passenger Rail System which died by 1963 due to the new highway system and air travel by passenger jet.

What he failed to realise is simply the Autobahn was a very narrow corridor in a very small country consuming a very small amount of actual land mass in square area in relation to the German republics total size in square miles at the time. The reason rail travel is so easy in Europe is that it is simply a smaller land mass in total square area.

People dont think about it but the national highway system in the entire land mass of the United states has covered 3 percent of its surface square area from what I remember. This created drainage ditches and embankment ditches that require mowing most of which is not typically required by a pasenger rail network.


It has has created a money eating monster of enormous proportions relating to maintaining the rights of way by the most economical means possible which has created a secondary market for rotary cutters of massive proportions and the municipalites desire to hire to lowest bidder was created by the economic boondoggle of reduced revenues in these municipalites.

Whoah there Sparky...

"Yes there is"....and from there on, you've dropped off the deep end pard....

Your line of reasoning is yet ANOTHER point where rotaries beat the living daylights out of expensive, inefficient, fragile, maintenance intensive, slow flail mowers. (simplicity of design/construction is an attribute that rotaries have and flails just never will) Thanks for pointing that out.....Once again, if I was in the business of manufacturing/selling flails, I'd pay you quite handsomely to QUIT posting.....You're providing more ammo AGAINST flails than I can offer.

Rotaries sell over 100 to 1 because they're less expensive, require less HP, they're more efficient, and much less maintenance intensive, all the while doing an excellent job.

95% of commercial mowing is done with rotaries because they're FAR more cost efficient, labor efficient, time efficient, ect.....,

Your tangent on Eisenhower/Interstate Hwy system is...... well....entertaining......disjointed from reality, having virtually NOTHING to do with the topic being discussed in this thread, and utter nonsense...... but entertaining. I'm quite sure Ike would be rolling in the isle laughing at the ridiculous comments you have regarding his contributions to the national hwy system.

First you TRY to make a case that rotaries are far less complicated in their construction, which contributes to their lower cost of construction, then you go in a totally different direction, contending flails are less complicated. Which is it? (I already know the answer, but REALLY want to hear you waffle on THIS matter ;) )

And you might wanna learn how to properly use quotes.....Altering MY comments by including your nonsense as part of the quoted text is simply unacceptable, albeit ANOTHER failed attempt on your part to make your case.

Keep up the postings. The rotary mower industry loves the good publicity you're providing!
 
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