Horsepower rating verses useable power

[Rolando]

I was having a conversation with a local dealer yesterday about the different models in the Grand L30 tractors. I was asking him what advantage I would get going from an L3130HST to a 3430 or 3830, how much of a difference the 3 or so HP step up with each model would make. Weight-wise in tractor, the 3130 weights the same as the 3430, and the 3830 is only 35 lbs more.

I'm still a novice, so I hope I'm remembering the details correctly enough. He mentioned that unless the implement uses the PTO, like a mower, there isn't any difference in the power because the FEL and BH would be the same in all three models (same weight and load capacities) and they run off the hydraulics. The hydraulics would reach their maximum pressure long before you max out the tractor HP in the L3130.

Is this correct? In terms of PTO, I will just be using a finish mower, and that would probably be a 72". The other implements I'm interested in are the FEL (the LA723 with a skid steer hitch or quick attach for a bucket, a grapple and a pallet fork), a box scrapper and if I can afford and/or get myself to spend the money, the BH (probably the BL4690B is all I would need).

BTW, where I am here in Florida I have fine sand (Arrendondo Fine Sand for the soils scientists in the audience) down to forever and no rocks AT ALL. The trees are not very mature, 4 to 10", and mostly all varieties of Oak. The parcel is 5 acres and I will be selectively clearing within 4 acres.

I worry about having sufficient power to push/dig out/move trees, move fill and construction supplies, and grade. But from what the dealer is saying, the 3130 will max out the power and capacity of the FEL and backhoe, so is there any point in spending the extra $1,200 or $3,500 on the 3430 or 3830? Don't mean to denigrate the 3430/3830 owners out there, just talking about what would be appropriate for my application.

 

[aardvark]

Unless you are going to run huge implements, I think the smallest power L series machine will be fine. I generate this opinion based on my dad's 8N tractor, which I think has a 20 hp gas engine, and he runs very large implements on it, to maintain his four acres in upstate NY.

I'm buying a tractor as well, to accomplish some of the same things you are doing, in an environment nearly identical to yours. I'm in Loxahatchee, which is in Palm Beach County. It's all sand here, no rocks, completely flat, lot of trees, as well as the tropical climate brush and junk which sprouts up overnight. My lot is only two acres, but it has 58 pine trees, 8 Oak trees, 40 fruit trees, about 15 junk trees (many different species), and it has alot of palms (traveller, coconut, royal, etc) around the perimeter of the property. I plan on keeping all the palms, most of the oaks, most of the fruit (about 35 of 40), maybe half or one third the pines, and none of the junk. To go along with the trees, there are lots of shrubs, and an old mist house which, all of which I'm removing. Most of my pines are about 35-50 feet tall, and about 14-20 inches in diameter. Some of the junk trees are even larger. I'm planning on doing this by felling the trees with a chainsaw, cutting them into managable sizes, and then moving the logs out for pickup. I can't afford a tractor large enough to push my trees over, and frankly, I suspect it would be a huge tractor to puch over a 50 ft tall pine. The tractors I've been considerering are the BX23 and B7610, both have loaders and backhoes. Both are much smaller than the machine you are looking at, but they should both be able to do the work, it will just take a lot longer.

 

[To20Chris]

Unless you are using the PTO, you can only use the power up until the tires spin. After that, more power is useless. Traction is derived from gravity and friction - to increase it you need to have more weight and/or better tire grip.

I think there have been some threads about the best type of tire for your soil, you may need to do some searching on old posts.

It appears that most hydraulic systems are designed to have maximum output near the PTO speed, which is also where they set up the maximum engine power to come in, but that does not mean you need all that HP to produce maximum pump output.

So basically, I think your dealer is right.

 

[SkyPup]

We have an L-3130 GST with LA723 FEL here in North Central Florida, and we have Lochloosa-Arrendondo soil too. It has plenty of power, as I dug a pit in about 30 minutes to euthanize my neighbors Arabian horse after it had an acute case of laminitis and had to be destroyed.

We also use the 723 FEL to dig out stumps from Laurel and White Oaks as well as huge Live Oak stumps, it really works great and gets an unbelieveable amount of work done on a small pittance of fuel comsumption. I put a toothbar on the blade to help handle large limbs and tree trunks. A backhoe would be even better for stump or rock removal though.

We have the TNT cylinders hooked up to a Bush Hog 72" box scrapper and it really make rear implement attachment and operation easy. We grade our three mile limerock grade road with it about twice a month.

Be sure to get the Ag tires if you are going to be doing much digging and fill them up with water too, you'll need the extra weight. You can dig as deep as you want or until you hit wet clay, then forget about digging anymore, you cannot go through clay no matter what kind of tractor you have!

 

[Rolando]

Thanks for the info Thom,
Hey, we're practically neighbors! I'm going to be up the road from you near SR 241 and SW 46th Ave. I'm glad your're happy with your set-up. I'm looking at practically the same thing, except I'm going with the HST transmission. Did you get the 66" or the 72" bucket, and the square back or Heavy Duty?

Where did you get your tractor? Did you go to G'ville or Ocala? I'd like to know what your experience was with the dealer. I haven't gotten real hard numbers yet, but I would prefer to go with the nearer dealer, all things being equal, which in my case is Gainesville. You may be closer to Ocala, I don't know.

Does your box scrapper give you enough counter balance for the FEL? Or do you also need the filled tires? I'm thinking I would like to get the BH to help with tearing up roots and whatnot, but it is so much money. I haven't decided yet.

 

[SkyPup]

We live out on Kanapaha Prairie near Archer.

We purchased our tractor from Gatorland Kubota in Hogtown, Alan Page is the nice owner and Billy McGhee is a super salesman, the mechanics are all extra great too! This is a first class non-rip dealership that I would recommend to anyone any day of the week.

We got the standard 72" Kubota bucket, I thought I'd need a heavy duty one too but that was not the case. The toothbar addition is extremely handy too.

The 72" boxscrapper weighs somewhere around 700 pounds and yes you will need it in addition to the water weighted tires for counterbalance, especially since a since a single 10 cubic foot scoop of wet sand will weight 1,500 plus pounds or so.

We did not get the backhoe, since for really tough jobs like that, I'd rather pay a heavy equipment operator to come take it on for $50 an hour with HIS Equipment, not mine!

I liked Gatorland Kubtoa so much that just last week we purchased a ZD21 hp diesel mower with a 60" deck from them, it is killer in the 10 acre bahia grass pasture!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Rolando]

Thanks again, Thom. Billy is the person I have been talking to also. I had a good first impression of him, but you can never tell for sure about these things. I'm glad to have it confirmed by your experience. And from my research so far, the prices he's giving me look pretty competitive.

 

[SkyPup]

Yes, they are honest, good natured, and a helpful resource. Never had any problem with them at all.

Also, have never had a single problem with the L-3130 with the LA-723 FEL, it is only 11 months old and already 450 no hassle no problem hard working hours on the rig! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You'll wonder how you ever managed without it, sure wish I had it twenty years ago......