Hours charged for tractor work

[Fixastuff]

Remember your machine is slowi
ly wearing out while using it so you need to charge enough to replace the machine in the future. That's one of many thing is learned from reading a book about the business of pipe laying. I don't do the same work as the book was about but it had alot of good stuff about bidding/billing that was helpful.

When doing work for homeowners, I and they liked jobs bidded complete not hour. No one cares what you charge per/hr just what it the total cost will be to get the finished.

So glad I don't mess with homeowners anymore!

 

[aircommuter]

Those jobs are why I stay as busy as I want.

I am a ONE MAN show. And I want to keep it that way. Dont want to deal with employees and the hassle that goes with it.

The guys that have big equipment, dozen employees, several trucks and trailers, etc etc etc dont want to fool around with the little customers for the $1000-$1500/day jobs. Leveling for swimming pools or small garages, utility trench to a new barn that takes a few hours at most, culvert replacements, making a parking pad or turn around, etc etc. There is a place for the small contractors to keep busy and make good money by filling the void of stuff that is a little more than the average homeowner wants to tackle on their own....but not big enough to entice the big boys to show up without charging a small fortune.

Yep to each his own. When I got away from hourly jobs I just went big enough that I could alway be working with my crew. After that size range the owner takes himself out of production and there is a gap before the same profit level is obtained. Efficiency goes down and cost goes up. More waste and more headaches with a bunch of guys. Today I have a passive business no employees and the money keeps flowing without my presence.

 

[LD1]

I figure in my equipment loading, hauling, and travel time, (that includes truck and labor), both ways. Then I figure estimated equipment time on the ground working including my labor. I tell them I have estimated X amount of time on the ground working, tractor work included and give them an estimate stating that if I run over the time estimate it will it will be added at $/ hour.

And if you come in under hours do you give them a discount?

You're either flat rate or you aren't. You're either hourly or you aren't.

(With exceptions like I mentioned earlier like a rock clause).

But you can't bid a job at a flat rate....then go over and tack more on....without equally discounting if you come in under. IE....can't have your cake and eat it to.

You are basically bidding hourly but with a minimum. And you have no incentive to work quickly and efficiently

 

[paulsharvey]

Business models vary; but probably the most similar operation to owner-operator tractor work is probably lawn care. I can tell you a lot of guys think they are making a dang good living, until stuff wears out. That's not a negative to the work, just something you have to account for. Now, sure, there are guys doing work for $35/hr; but if your not losing 33% of the work you go after, you need to increase your rates.

So; question for you guys; who-what owns the tractor? You or the company? Do you own it, and then rent it out to the company? Do you have problems depreciating it out if it's a personal item, and used for personal use too? Do you just 'hire' your own company to do your personal work? Or are we not writing anything off?

Cleanest would be truck, trailer, and tractor owned by company, and keep personal seperate; but you won't want the over head.

Workers Comp; you can exempt yourself; but I've always heard you shouldn't. That workers comp for certain trades are very cheap, and cover any injuries. Also; how does your works comp deal with on/off job. That part can get weird for employees who drive a company truck home; was that commute time vs on job time.

 

[aircommuter]

Business models vary; but probably the most similar operation to owner-operator tractor work is probably lawn care. I can tell you a lot of guys think they are making a dang good living, until stuff wears out. That's not a negative to the work, just something you have to account for. Now, sure, there are guys doing work for $35/hr; but if your not losing 33% of the work you go after, you need to increase your rates.

So; question for you guys; who-what owns the tractor? You or the company? Do you own it, and then rent it out to the company? Do you have problems depreciating it out if it's a personal item, and used for personal use too? Do you just 'hire' your own company to do your personal work? Or are we not writing anything off?

Cleanest would be truck, trailer, and tractor owned by company, and keep personal seperate; but you won't want the over head.

Workers Comp; you can exempt yourself; but I've always heard you shouldn't. That workers comp for certain trades are very cheap, and cover any injuries. Also; how does your works comp deal with on/off job. That part can get weird for employees who drive a company truck home; was that commute time vs on job time.

In my state the owner can’t be covered by workmen’s compensation.

 

[paulsharvey]

In my state the owner can’t be covered by workmen’s compensation.

Hmm, I didn't know that, I knew, at one point, they could exempt themselves, and upto 3? employees, except for construction workere, (only owner), at the time. Laws change, and people misspeak, or heck, misunderstand, then spread that information, so I very well could be wrong.

Edit:

Exemptions

www.myfloridacfo.com

It reads like you cant; but I believe it says exempt officers can Not; but you actively apply to be exempt... so, if you didn't apply to be exempt, then you could be covered?

 

[aircommuter]

They told me the reason was they had no control over the record keeping of the owners hours and different trades he may do. Like roofing is 80% last time was involved.

 

[Fixastuff]

In my state the owner can’t be covered by workmen’s compensation.

Same here, but I still have to insure myself to work for other big companies!

 

[aircommuter]

Same here, but I still have to insure myself to work for other big companies!

You mean liability? Comp would be as their employee? At least it would be here. Comp is just mostly a lawyer scam.

 

[Fixastuff]

You mean liability? Comp would be as their employee? At least it would be here. Comp is just mostly a lawyer scam.

No I have to have 1million workman's comp on myself even though I can't use it. They make me have it so I can't make a claim on their workman comp. Then any subcontractors I have have to have to prove to me they have it for when my workman comp insurance provider does an audit on me.

 

[mdmd531]

Refueling should be part of the hours whether it’s at the end of the day or beginning. That job is using fuel and some people don’t want to leave a full tank if there’s a chance someone might steal it. I have done some labor work for a contractor and been told that I charge him when I leave my house until I’m off the job and the keys to the rig are returned. I disagree. I prefer to be paid for my work not my driving time or lunch or standing around waiting for my que to start. If I was working for a big company that would be different. I have my own business and don’t like to charge for the time I visit but I’m told too bad cuz they’re paying me for listening to them. Local work means you probably know them and if they’re unhappy they’ll tell everyone. Myself, I’d rather take a little less than **** where I eat. Most people just want to know they’re getting their money’s worth.

 

[aircommuter]

Never heard of comp having a dollar limit. Here it is just available as an hourly rate. Sounds more like an additional insured is what you have on them.

 

[Fixastuff]

Never heard of comp having a dollar limit. Here it is just available as an hourly rate. Sounds more like an additional insured is what you have on them.

No, they are additional insured on my liability for 5 million and I have to show them I have 1 million in workman's comp for myself.

 

[Fixastuff]

And 1 million additionally insured on the auto insurance.

 

[aircommuter]

I guess thats good since your comp carrier is limited to that amount because comp claims can be ten or 20 times that much. Here it’s whatever a lawyer can get a jury to give them.

 

[duke7595]

I charge 'TRACK TIME' some call it ' seat Time' only those hours spent on the machine are billed to the customer. Depending upon the distance, I charge accordingly, example 10miles or less, no charge, over 10 miles and less than 30 miles I charge $150.00 over 30 miles flat fee of $250.00 however, 50 miles. is the limit of distance I will travel.

 

[olenjohn]

It is whatever is agreed to by both parties BEFORE the work starts. Too often this doesn’t happen and this is what causes disputes. I know of someone (owner) that hired a contractor to “ fix the road” without a clear understanding of what was going to be done and the cost to do it. When the owner got the bill they went ballistic. Contractor “fixed the road” as he saw fit and billed the owner as he saw fit. He had brought in a bulldozer, excavator and dump ruck with trailer to haul the equipment. The owner was billed the equipment hourly rate for all the equipment, truck and trailer for 2 ten hour days even though the truck never moved once it got to the site and the excavator was only actually used for about 4 hours. To make it even more painful to the owner, the contractor had also billed him an additional 4 hours of truck / trailer time for equipment hauling before and after the road work. 2 hours for moving the dozer and 2 hours for moving the excavator. Contractor was a crook and was most likely charging the next customer for haul into their site while also charging this owner to haul out of his site. Double dipping. So the lesson is to get a mutual agreement with both owner and contractor BEFORE the work is started. If either one has a problem with that walk away, it will not end well if you proceed.

 

[fritzp]

I have been asked why I charge for travel time and idle time waiting for parts or materials. My response is, “I am not available to someone else at this time, I bill it”. My time has to be worth something.
Some separate man hours from machine hours and total them.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I am retired and started my own business doing tractor and skid steer work, I charge $150 per hour for the skid steer and have a 3 hour minimum, what I have found is that a lot of people are willing to hire you at the 3 hour minimum just so they can see what you can get done in those 3 hours, I have only had 1 job that the customer didn't want more done after the 3 hours, most give you the go ahead to keep working for the full day or more. I am a firm believer in giving people a fair day's work for a fair day's pay and so far it has worked out pretty good for me, on mowing with the tractor I charge $50-75 per acre depending on how the mowing is, I miss out on a few jobs due to some who will mow for $30 per acre but I just can't make that work for my bottom line, but I make up for it in other ways on pasture re-seeding jobs or other custom jobs that alot of weekenders just don't have the equipment to do.

 

[paulsharvey]

I know it has been 12-15 years ago; but I was doing skid steer work at $75/hr; no insurance, no taxes, and I figured out I wasn't doing very well for myself. The cost to go look at a job, getting paid, and people thought you were making $75/hr; and that you could just swing back by and touch things up... Honestly, I could run the machine, but had no idea what I was doing business wise.

Smart phones, mobile card scanners, etc. weren't a thing yet.

Also was doing handy man work for $35/hr, plus materials; and found out fast that small things; misc screws, sand paper, trips to quote, kicked my butt. Did some 1099 work; and didn't increase rates to cover taxes/SS/ etc... Figure I was 25 or so at the time; and would do things a lot different now.