House Building - Save money

[rgood]

Guys, we still have our ICF house on the drawing board. I can think of lots of ideas to make the house safer and energy efficient etc. Most of the ideas cost lots of money.

My question for you is where can you save money and not compromise the house?

Example, I know I could buy cheaper windows, but that would be foolish because windows are difficult to replace later and my heat would go out them.

I think I could buy cheaper doors for the rooms in the basement and if I wanted to upgrade them later, no big deal.

What ideas do you have?

 

[jonyyuma]

I recommend the best windows, you can afford, I just had e-rated one's put in last year. Mine had lost the gas between the panes years ago.Plus the best insulation you can afford, might look into the barrier for the attic.Solid Foam for the basement walls?..Advanced heating system..Please don't say fireplace..

 

[Egon]

Concentrate on the Shell making it energy efficient but also not going to extremes.

Also try for fire resistant materials, especially on the outside.

 

[dmccarty]

The expense in a house is the kitchen, bathrooms, flooring, trim, siding, windows, and doors. I am sure you could search the Inet and find the average percentage cost of the items in a house.

There is a program called RESFEN that uses parameters from your house design, such as square footage, window sizes, various Windows performance values, etc, and calculates the energy usage and cost of the house design. The program is free and I think created by the US Government.

LBNL Window & Daylighting Software -- RESFEN

I used RESFEN to pick the windows we used in our house. I plugged in the performance numbers for various window brands to see how they would effect our energy usage. Then compared those results to how much the various window brands cost and choose accordingly.

Designing passive heating and cooling into a house is not hard. For little to no cost you can get free heat gain in the winter. We have done this and it works well. I think passive cooling might cost more depending on the design and does nothing for HUMIDITY but it is worth investigation. To help with the heat we put in 10 foot tall ceilings to keep the heat away from us which does help. 10 feet is pretty short compared to older buildings.

We have 100 year old buildings in town and they look like they have 16' ceilings. If you look at old deep south/Florida houses they have very tall ceilings and often wrap around porches to shade the windows and trap breezes. Often the house is built quite a bit off the ground as well. None of which really deals with humidity.

We looked at an energy efficient house design when we were researching the house. The house was designed to use passive cooling and heating. The problem was that the designed required two or three stories. One of our requirements was that the master bedroom, kitchen, living room, etc. be on one level. To do this with the company's floor plan, you had to have a very large house. Over 6,000 sf large. Not happening. :laughing:

I did talk with and read about people who had bought these houses. The passive solar worked just fine. The passive cooling was so so. The design just could not deal with humidity and the owners eventually put in central AC to handle the NC humidity in the summer.

On nights with low summer temps we open our windows to cool off the house and then run the AC as needed during the day. This works quite often. Last night was an exception because it was 82 degrees at 10:00pm. The day temp was 96 so that is an exception.

We also have a whole house fan that we use from time to time to dump heat out of the house and to create a "breeze". We do not use the fan much. Good quality, quiet ceiling fans are a must.

Later,
Dan

 

[YesDeere]

A friend just did geothermal. Already noticing lower utilities. Solar is getting more reasonable. I'd like to put up a windmill.

 

[jdfire]

I agree with the others. Concentrate on the shell and mechanicals then save money on the interior finishes. Think functional. It seems everyone wants granite counters these days, but laminate still works just fine. Design the kitchen and bathrooms to use standard size cabinets rather than custom sizes. Lower cost lights fixtures from big-box stores will still provide light in the room even if they're not as fancy. You can even save a couple hundred dollars using plain switch and receptacle covers rather than decorative ones.

 

[BillBeyer]

I am building one now also. Installed very good windows, spray foam insulation on all exterior walls, trying something new to me, spray foamed the underside of roof. Attic area is supposed to stay within 5 to 10 degrees of house temp. Hope it works like they say. Should be in it approx. 45 days.

 

[EddieWalker]

House costs can vary all over the place. Build yourself for materials and minimal labor for under $40 a foot is real easy to do. Hiring a crew in my part of the country puts you in the $55 a foot range for entry level and $100 a foot is a mini mansion.

ICF's are very expensive and in my opinion, not worth the money. Those who love them, really LOVE them, but you pay for that love. Stick frame is still the most cost effective way to build a house. Start out with a rectangle for the very cheapest design to build. Every angle, bump and shape that you add to it, jumps the price considerably. Think mobile homes and their shape and you have the most cost effective design.

One story is cheaper then two stories for the same square footage. Some have disagreed with me on this, but figure stairs into it, lost square footage and greater expense to build the second story.

Windows have an R rating on them. Most are around R4 give or take. To jack up the price, they make them prettier and add silly features that they tell you will increase their energy effency. If the R value isn't any higher then the cheaper window, then you are just buying icing and not getting any gains for it. More windows mean more loss of energy. That low R value in the window really kills anything you have going on in the walls. It's like building a ship of the very best materials, but leaving a dozen holes in it and wondering why whater is getting into the hull. The only thing worse then windows for energy efficincy is a sky light. I hate them, and absolutely refuse to have one or install one for a client.

Hardi is your best, most cost effective exterior siding. Sheetrock is the most cost effective interior.

Buy premade cabinets. The finish is better then anything that can be done by a cabinet shop, and overall, you will save thousands. Counter tops and flooring are big dollar items that you can do yourself and safe a bunch of money. Carpet is still the cheapest thing to put down for flooring, but the snap together wood floors are very nice and very easy to do yourself if you have patience and dont rush it.

Painting is easy to do, but time consuming. Get a few bids on what it will cost and then consider doing it yourself. If you don't have any flooring down, it's pretty easy to get a lot done real fast.

Avoid trends and whatever the latest fashion is.

2,000 square feet is about the perfect size for function. After that you are either adding bedrooms or wasted space. Make sure the floor plan is functional and what you really want. Do you need two living areas? two eating areas? wide open area in your bedroom? Lots of things sound nice, but once done, really have little benifit. Grand entry ways are good for entertaining, but if you use the back door all the time, why put money into an area that isn't even used? Things like that go into every home. Identifying them and using the space differently, or the money on something else can result in huge savings.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Gizmo2]

EddieWalker,
That my friend was a good posting. I would also say probably 100% correct.

 

[YesDeere]

I'll second that!! My wife and I are just starting to look into building. She was thinking prefab but as you said. I may be better off stick built. One thing we agree on is nothing fancy. No one wants to be house poor

 

[EHR]

In the Manchester NH area I built a earthbermed Structual Insulated Panel home. 1800 feet above grade, 800 in the basement walkout. Peak heat demand is 21000 BTU/hr and I have 15ft ceilings throughout. I heat everything with 1 Woodstock soapstone woodstove. I burn about 2 1/2 cords a year. I think the standard construction is rated for 160 mph winds.

 

[dmccarty]

I'll second that!! My wife and I are just starting to look into building. She was thinking prefab but as you said. I may be better off stick built. One thing we agree on is nothing fancy. No one wants to be house poor

We looked at modular homes and in the end the price did not justify the comprises we would have to make with a floor plan. At the time the widest module you could get on the road in NC was 14 feet. So you pretty much were stuck with one room dimension being 13 feet. Later the state allowed 16 foot wide modules on SOME roads.

The bottom line was the the module home "builders" we checked into did not have prices that much better than stick built. In fact one builder was more than stick built.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

I had been a big fan of ICF's for years. Going back to the early to mid 90's I was researching ICFs. In the end, we did not use ICFs simply because it was going to cost more than stick built. We wanted WINDOWS in the house. Eddie said it one way but I will say it another. Windows are holes you poke into the wall. Why spend more money on a ICF wall then poke big holes in the wall?

Instead we built with 2x6 studs with an R value of 25ish and then poked big holes in the wall. :laughing: It was cheaper.

Every major room in the house has an 8'x6' or larger window. We have big holes in the wall. I am sure we would be a bit warmer in the winter with smaller holes but we like the view. We finally did put up energy efficient blinds which helps. Summer cooling is kinda a wash since we open the windows quite a bit. Heat is from the wood stove and the heat pump is only run during the hotter, humid days of the year. So the big hole in the walls kinda worked out in the end.

On the other hand the OP is in coastal FLA. Building with ICF's in Hurricane country makes since if you DESIGN and BUILD in protection of the windows and doors. ICF walls are not much help if the windows blow out, the winds get into the house and tears the roof off the house.

One of the concerns being raised about ICFs when in the early 2000's was termites. While the termites will not eat concrete or the ICF, they COULD use the ICF material to tunnel through and up into the attic to find wood. Some ICF brands were putting borate in the ICF to stop the termites.

Later,
Dan

 

[radioman]

eddie- alot of what you have said is so true. All good points, and great ideas.

I want to add two more things. zoned HVAC and sun location.

HVAC-Depending on type of house you build, zoning is a wonderful thing. take my house for example. Its a raised ranch with huge 6 by 10 windows facing south upstairs in living room. In winter, its gets warmer in living room then bedroom on west and north side. zoned heating balances out the comfort resulting in heat savings. for AC, the lower level is always colder even with vents closed when ac is on then upstairs, but with zoned AC the first floor is balanced out compared to upstairs resulting less AC run time.

Sun location. When I moved here, my garage doors faced the south and had no windows. I had to use the light everytime I went in there during day. I replaced it with simple windows last month and I am marveling on how much light I have now and I can see without turning on the lights when I need something. Remember I mentioned my huge windows in living room?, it too faced south so its gets warmer in summer/winter when sun is out, and chilly when cloudy in winter.

As eddie mentioned, you need to think through on how you WILL, not want using the house features/layout. think where is garage/front door is located. N,S,E,W? same with rest of house.

 

[NorTracNY]

We looked at modular homes and in the end the price did not justify the comprises we would have to make with a floor plan. At the time the widest module you could get on the road in NC was 14 feet. So you pretty much were stuck with one room dimension being 13 feet. Later the state allowed 16 foot wide modules on SOME roads.

The bottom line was the the module home "builders" we checked into did not have prices that much better than stick built. In fact one builder was more than stick built.

Later,
Dan

I get the impression that the quality and pricing of modular homes can vary significantly. We found that many places that sold lower quality manufactured homes would also sell modular. For us the price was untouchable from a good modular place compared to the stick builders we looked at. Some of the stick builders were constantly trying to steer our designs into what was popular at the time despite us telling them what we wanted.

Eddie's post I think is right on. I agree with others that you should look at the shell of the house and how you'll heat/cool it first. Everything else can be changed later.

 

[dmccarty]

Kitchens and bathrooms.

Check out IKEA. You will likely have to travel to get to one. The nearest one to us is two hours away. You have to assemble the furniture and cabinets you buy from them but they have the instructions and furniture/cabinets well designed. We have bought bedroom furniture and living room furniture and have been very impressed with the quality of the stuff.

The furniture is more "modern" looking so it will no appeal to all.

IKEA has a large selection of cabinets. We bought good quality aka expensive cabinets for the kitchen and baths. I think we could have gotten the same quality from IKEA for a third of the price. The IKEA store was not built when we built the house. If it had been and I knew what I now know, I think I would have bought from IKEA and done the install myself.

They have a website and you can get a catalog. The catalog and website are good with planning software and such but going to the store is a much better experience. At least use them to as a price comparison.

Later,
Dan

 

[showcattle]

I didn't read the whole thread. When we built, we cut costs on light fixtures, bathroom fixtures, etc. I figured it's easy to replace that stuff.

 

[forgeblast]

Ikea is a good place to get furniture for the whole house not just one room.
Our ikea stuff is still going strong after 10 years. Nearest one was 2 1/2 hours away. we rented a u-haul to go down pick everything up and take it home.
Nearest furniture place would let us get 1/2 a room for what we spent at Ikea.

Painting, mask and paint easy money save.

Landscaping is easy with the box stores and their modular blocks for edging. Also go with some smaller trees shrubs and you will save money too.

I would spend more on insulation, get the foam in there it will pay for itself.

 

[Chuck52]

If you and/or the wife are thinking about putting in a fancy Jacuzzi style jetted tub, really think about it. We put one in when we added a master bath to our home and so far the grandkids have been the main users. They use it to "swim" in for a bath, while DW and I have used it maybe five times in ten years. It was not cheap.

If you are going to have NG or propane, consider an on-demand water heater. They seem to be worthwhile. OTOH, if you go geothermal, you may get your hot water that way.

Chuck

 

[dmccarty]

If you do go to IKEA, and you should, it will take you hours to walk through the place. We have been three times. The first time was to check it out. The second and third trip was to buy. Since I have a full size pick up we could bring the stuff home easily. For both trips the truck was packed.

IKEA is like Disney. They know how to keep people flowing. Once you are on site they do not want you to leave. IKEA has a very good cafeteria. The food is cheap and good. If we lived near to IKEA we would go there to eat at least a couple of times a month. :laughing: Take a cooler, a big cooler, because IKEA sells the food served in the cafeteria as frozen food. IKEA's chocolate bars are VERY good as well. Deserts are pretty danged good too. I wish we had taken two coolers.

You really could furnish your entire house at IKEA. They sell furniture, plates, kitchen appliances, cabinets, cups, bath fixtures, etc.

Later,
Dan