House Construction - Best value and working with a bulder/s???

[Beltzington]

This year we will have our few acres paid off and hope to start building. Initially, right after we closed on the property, we went out and paid for house plans and had local inspectors do all the pre-build inspections. After selecting a contractor we liked, I was in disbelief when he quoted $180-190/sq ft to build. Granted, the house was a custom build but this was almost twice what similar type homes were selling for in the middle of the economic slow-down. Since I did not want to start retirement with a huge mortgage we decided to pay-off bills instead, which brings me back to the point.

I don't begrudge builders right to be paid for their efforts. What I want is to sit down with someone, preferable over a beer, and start the conversation with here is what I am thinking and getting an honest reply on what they, as a professional, would do if this was going to be their last home. How to save money by making changes to the size, shape and what are the best construction techniques in our area and why. How do I approach this? Both the original architect and builder had the "whatever you want approach," and this ended up costing me $1400 for house plans I am not going to use as I don't need a $400K home to retire in.

I understand now I cannot assume the folks I talk with always have my best interest at heart but I would like to learn from anyone else who has had similar experiences and how they worked through them. Appreciate your comments.

 

[dave1949]

Can't offer any real help.

As to the price shock, I see decent properties here that are listed for far less than it would take to build them today. That may be just a current fact of life. It sure makes buying existing home properties more attractive at the moment.

Maybe someone will chime in and give you an idea if those prices per sq. ft. are reasonable for your area.

 

[s219]

We just finished building a new place in 2013. Our builder knew what we wanted and we gave him a budget when planning things in early 2012. That allowed him to steer us in a certain direction. He helped us make some choices about materials and features, and helped us prioritize what was important. For instance, we dropped the following costly things from our dream plans:

* standing seam metal roof (went with architectural shingles)
* Hardy shake siding (went with Hardy lap and board/batten)
* Anderson windows (went with Certainteed)
* cultured stone veneer on the foundation (went with brick and only put stone on porch columns)
* asphalt driveway (went with gravel)
* basement (went with conditioned crawl space)
* ultimate kitchen (kept same layout but went with more reasonable appliances/cabinets)

That allowed us to keep other costly things like:

* 2x6 framed walls
* spray foam insulation
* hardwood floors throughout
* high efficiency casement windows
* stained overhangs and rafter tails
* geo-thermal HVAC
* solid interior doors
* craftsman interior trim
* Emtek door hardware
* Thermatru craftsman style exterior doors
* tile/glass shower in master

In the end, I think it made for a better house because we put the money into things that were most important to us. The other stuff would have been nice to have, but removing it didn't really hurt anything and we don't miss it one bit. So maybe that's my advice -- think about stuff that you really won't miss, and chuck it. Think about stuff you really value, and keep it.

$180-190 per square foot is not bad for a new home at all -- you are right in the middle of the typical range in my area (the cheaper homes that build for $100-150 per square foot are generally not real good values unless you're young and looking for a new starter home -- otherwise I'd say most people will get far better value out of an older home at that price).

New homes will always be a lot more expensive per square foot than existing homes on the market. Now unfortunately, the appraisal value of a home is set by those existing homes on the market, even if you're building new. So when the real estate market takes a dump and nice old homes are selling for $100 per square foot, it makes building something new and nice really out of whack.

 

[jk96]

We are in the middle of our build and the one thing I can suggest if your using a builder is to spend as much time onsite as possible. Even though your paying a builder I would have my eyes on the project every step of the way. As for existing house pricing it's the same in our area. Homes on the market are selling much cheaper that it's possible to build a new one for. We are going to be into ours for about $130/sq ft working as our own GC. $180 sq/ft for a builder to turn-key a custom home doesn't sound too far out of line.

 

[wolftree]

Beltzington,

I can agree with most of the ideas s219 put forth. The more basic the shape of the home is, usually the cheaper. The Cape Cod 1-1/2 story rectangle shape is very hard to beat in cost. All those architech added corners for no reason beyond adding cost (figure each added corner to cost $1000 before you are done)

 

[Beltzington]

S219 - Thanks for the thoughtful response, it sounds like you have a home you should be proud of.

Wow, 180/sf is normal? Makes me concerned as this price was 5+ years ago! In our area we have new construction as low as $75/sf for entry level homes they can knock together in a week. Amazing to watch these guys work, very efficient.

JK96 and Wolftree your comments are inline with my current research on the web, I actually would just like to pay for time and materials to get the house dried in and finish the interior on my own dime and time. I did not realize building up was much more economical then a one-story home so I am seriously considering a 1-1/2 modified A-frame with a poured basement as the original builder said the slope was steep enough that a full basement would make more sense than piers. It looked almost flat to me
Please continue to share your experiences.

 

[Pilot]

$180 sounds pretty high to me, but maybe not if you want something fancy.

Here's some food for thought:

We've been watching for the right piece of property and keeping building options in mind. Never liked the idea of a mobile home until we passed a dealership along the freeway that had real houses on display. 2 stories, shapes other than standard rectangles. Stopped in and had a talk. Now they will build almost anything you want. Steeper pitch roof? The build in roof in sections that fold up, reducing the height so they will clear bridges and powerlines, then raise them up onsite. Everything is standard, not something special built for the MH industry. Break a window? Go to HD to buy a replacement. Need a new stove? Go to Sears or any other appliance store. How much for about 2,000 SF with all the options? About $80 per SF, garage extra. That's for the house only, add site prep and foundation on top of that, so you might be talking $120 finished.

Then there's the modular option. Built like a MH, a little more flexibility in design. The local factory doesn't build them for Oregon because Oregon inspectors can't be depended on to show up at the factory when needed, so they might have to stop the production line to wait for an inspector. But they build homes for Washington in the same plant and Washington inspectors show in the Oregon plant when needed. I understand that modulars are more common in the east, so you might want to look into them. Here, modulars are listed in the property records as a site built house.

 

[BitChin1]

Where is your property located (city or country)? Could you act as your own GC? At first this may sound overwhelming and it does take time - that said I have GC'd my last house, fully contracted the previous house and sort of middle road on my 1st house - I had the least headaches on the house I GC'd and the most on the house I paid $50+ to the GC to make sure I had no headaches

Even if you want to go the route of hiring a GC spend some time exploring building practices in your area and look into what new home builds are listed/selling for
In either case plan to spend many hours at the job site and oversee all planning and building activities (especially for a higher end custom build) -
$180/ sq ft sounds a bit high but not ridiculous for high end turn key (and you could go much higher), but there are ways to get high end look/benefit but save significant cost by making good decisions/trade offs.

My house is a full Timber Frame (which really means it has a very expensive trim job) - my TF cost me ~ $27/sq ft alone and house came in at ~ $107/sq ft (including full finished basement, main floor and 2nd level loft) - initial plan cost for TF was $40/sq ft based on normal approach our TF'er followed - I worked through the design to keep total sq ft area but reduced TF joints and in the end saved significant $'s - I did this throughout the build (our house has stone floors, custom cabinets, Granite counters in all counters - another area where you can spend or save, GSHP, triple pane windows, full SIP walls etc - not cookie cutter at all) - I did have a local GC quote the project primarily to be sure I was saving $'s doing it myself - his bid came in at $175/sq ft -
I could have worked through some of the cost savings even working with him as I did doing it myself, but he really would not have wanted to spend the time (remember time is $)

Now don't assume this was an easy task - between myself and my wife we estimate we put in ~ 1000hrs of planning, overseeing and some actual sweat equity - my time does cost something, but to some degree this was enjoyable activity vs work - that said it was effort and I was responsible - no GC to go after if something is not right!

Feel free to PM me if you want to know more about my experience or ask questions on thread

 

[Rustyiron]

Some very general facts;
Your foundation (basement), and roof (not just shingles) are 2 major cost factors and the reason a ranch style house will cost more per sf. than a 2 story. There is just more living space in between those expensive items in a 2 story than a rancher. As someone mentioned that adding corners is costly to both of the above items. A corner in the bsmt. will affect the roof generally.
All of those offsets and reverse gables that are so popular in architecture these days do add "curb appeal" but really add nothing to the comfort or livability of the house. Obviously there is a wide price spread in materials. From windows, mechanicals, insluation, cabietry & finishes, you can go crazy $$ with any of those and there are a bunch that I did not mention.
You should really educate yourself about these things so that you can decide what your priorities are.
Retirement house- (in my thinking), you may want that single floor rancher that is only as big as you need. I would want durable, maintainence free finishes in any situation where this would apply. The best windows, doors and most importantly insulation pkg. that you can afford, these items will pay for themself in future energy costs - they do not go down! Possibly consider wide doorway's, think wheelchair.
The more you know about what you want, and the ability to have a conversation with a builder or gc without him having to explain everything or worse, make assumptions, the better your project will go for the both of you!

 

[Beltzington]

I have been looking at modular homes but all the ones that interest me are pushing stick-built prices.

I really have no desire to do GC, my BIL did that and it almost killed him and he is a people person. I on the other hand don't care to supervise, cajole, beg other folks to meet what I consider minimum standard of quality. My wife of 32yrs thinks I am an a** if that explains things. Secondly, I am on call basically 24/7 which gives me allot of flexibility with my schedule but when I have to go, I has to go.

Will definitely have wide doors, walk-in showers, etc.. watching both of our parents age has been a painful learning process.

Anyone have a suggestion on determining approximate cost of a 32x40 poured concrete basement? Any online calculators let you play with dimensions?