House plus New shop

nwngunner · Apr 7, 2015

So i have been gone from the forums for a while. Now while i have been gone, i have been rebuilding a house i inherited from my grand parents. I have currently replaced the roof, siding windows doors, electrical, plumbing, ect ect. It has been a full gut and rebuild including free spanning the basement 24feet. All the while i have been paying for it as we go. I am planning on being done with the house debt free. Now, when i am done, hopefully in the next year. I am wanting to get a loan on my house and build a new shop.

My current shop is 40x64 and the doors suck in the winter and the floor is junk. Going to be about 15,000 for a new floor, excavate the back fill and put in a new liner, new back fill and new floor.

So my new shop i am wanting to go as big as i possibly can. I am thinking 50 x 100 . Want to be able to heat and cool the building. Now i need to be able to get a semi in and out to do work on it. The shop will also have a two post hoist in it for normal cars and a weld shop along with machine tools.

What do you guys recomend for heat? Propane tube heater or heated floor? Also what about doors, do i want roll up or do i want like 16' overhead doors? The walls inside will metal with cellulose insulation that will be forced filled. Thinking about going with a red iron free span building.

One other thing about the building, i want to put a 2ton hanging bridge crane in. Any one ever put one in your building? I like that idea because i can go over the hoist to work on what ever i want.

Even if i only do another 40 x 64 building, it will be better then what i got.

woodlandfarms · Apr 7, 2015

It comes down to the benjamins.

Insulation is a key, insulating under the floor and the rest of the building. Radiant floor heat is the cats meow. Wood fired radiant heat might be affordable (it is what we are looking at) or a solar version as well. Electric and gas will be a pretty penny but if that is not an issue, it is the most convenient.

Look at Costco's. They have worked hard to save money on their box stores. They have lots of skylights to reduce lighting costs and insulate the heck out of the building. I think the amount of people in the store provide a lot of heat.

But this all costs money. If you don't have it do like a friend of mine did and build a custom wood stove. It is designed so that a fan blows across the top and sends air into his 70X100.

But, the other thing is cooling. There is not a lot of cheap solutions to cooling. Look at a company called Big ***** Fans (no it is not dollar signs). They make some fantastic shop sized fans.

nwngunner · Apr 7, 2015

Yeah i dont know if i really want to spend a ton of time every fall cutting wood. Why i am thinking the propane tube heater and just keep it like 45 in the winter. I want to make sure i have air hoses power cords all from the cealing. I am looking at putting this in, either the 2000 pound or the 4000 pound depending on what the company of the building says. So fans will have to placed where i can. The crane will be as big as i can put in from like this site.

Ceiling Mounted Bridge Cranes Connecticut | Overhead Bridge Cranes CT

NewfieDan · Apr 7, 2015

For heat, have you looked at used oil heaters? The take used oil, and using compressed air they turn it into a fine mist and ignite it. A local mechanic shop here uses it and they are very happy with it. Only need enough power for a small oil pump, the blower and a compressor that you are likely to have anyhow.

As for the lift have you checked into a 4post lift? Some have lots of options like drain pans, axle jacks to lift one end or even a corner of the vehicle on the lift. My son has one and uses it to work on his exotics.

The bridge hoist will need some engineering to put it in properly. Are your footings suitable for it? What about the existing structure? Is it up to handling the extra weight? I know it's only a 2T hoist but you don't want problems down the road from it.

From my experience roll up doors don't insulate as well as conventional overhead doors. But I am used to rapid roll doors that only take a couple of seconds to go up or down.

truckdiagnostics · Apr 7, 2015

Just like stated above all depends on what you want to spend. Don't know much about the ceiling mounted bridge crane but I would think the load would have to be designed into the building. I have had 4 post bridge cranes put in before and they are basically free standing and as long as you have the footings and ceiling height pretty straight forward. As for the doors can't say much on the roll up. Few shops i have worked in that had them opening and closing was pain. If I had my choice I would go with sectional door, and have it made so it follows the roof line or ceiling. As for door height don't know why you would need anything higher that 14'.

I heat our shop off geothermal heat pump. It is about 1/2 the size you are considering, you can get commercial units big enough to heat a building that size. If you have a choice of propane or the geothermal, with your heat loss the geothermal pay for its self in no time.

You want to heat the floor and the air. You set the air handler to about two degrees below the floor, so when you open the door and get a big loss, the air handler can bring temp up fast, then the floor will bring it up the last 2 degrees. Nothing beats radiant floor heat. But in a shop with the doors opening and closing, it can not make up for the loss fast enough.

An advantage of the geothermal heat pump is it would also make chilled water so with the air handler you would have air conditioning. Up front cost is high but after 7 years you are ahead of the game and it beats stuffing wood in an outside wood burner.

Sprinklerman · Apr 7, 2015

I love the heated floors , But they take a day or 2 to heat up . I use a forced air oil furnace , turn it on when I need it , off when I am done . Only went thru 50 gallons this year because I was busy elsewhere .

nwngunner · Apr 8, 2015

I might be able to get enough used oil to put in an oil burner. I change several hundred gallons of oil a year just in my own equipment. Tractors, semi, skid loader ect ect. Lots to consider, i wonder what geo thermal would cost, if i do that i might as well put it to my house as well.

Capricious · Apr 8, 2015

Maquoketa, Iowa ?

Bluff Lake Catfish Farm | Maquoketa, IA | (563) 652-3272

Only been there a couple of times, with people I know from the area. Crowded as all h___ for a place out in the middle of nowhere. Fish was good.

Made a trip to Maquoketa in January back sometime in the mid-80's. Sub-zero, blowing snow. Vehicle broke down.

Yea, it gets cold there.

truckdiagnostics · Apr 8, 2015

The only thing you would gain by doing the shop and the house at the same time is, you could bury the loops side by side. If you could bury your own loop, or at least dig the hole would save you. You also have to figure resale and what it will appraise out as. Most people will not have the access to the used oil. Also, when you get older and need say surgery and they put a weight restriction on you, and you can’t lift the logs to put them in the outside boiler.
Also, with the geothermal you do not need a compressor to make your chilled water for AC.

NewfieDan · Apr 8, 2015

Some of the higher end units come with a built in compressor. Don't know what prices are down in US but here in Canada a top end unit runs about $5k. For shop as big as you want, you will definitely need 2 maybe three heaters. Initial cost is cheaper to install than geothermal, but thermal is cheaper to run. Unless you have free oil as you said, then it's just the cost of electricity.

I would also suggest for lighting to put lights along the wall, about 2ft up. I did this for friend. He loved it, no more need to use a trouble light for those annoying brake jobs, or anything else along the same height.