How about BIODIESEL?

smartguyz · May 24, 2004

Hi guys -

With all the talk about gas prices, I thought it might be fun to do some research on alternative fuels - I have encountered biodiesel, which is made primarily from soybeans(!). I found that it is supposedly totally OK to use in a diesel tractor and it smells like (Mossroad will enjoy this) FRENCH FRIES when burned in a diesel engine.

Here's a link that gives some information on it. Here in Oregon, there are even a few pumps that sell it - Over in the city, it is about $2.40 for B10, and $2.90 to $3.90 for B100. It only has a shelf life of 6 months, but this looks like a cool fuel!

How about a hybrid biodiesel car?

That might actually work!

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chechnya · May 24, 2004

at $3 dollars a gallon? i dont even think so.

Bob_Skurka · May 24, 2004

Regular Diesel is selling for $1.69 in my market, why would I pay about $3.00 just to smell french fries when I run my tractor?

I'm not trying to be cheap, but the question is valid. Why would I pay such a premium? Will my engine run smoother and last longer without a rebuid? Will it start better when it is below freezing? Are there greater lubricating properties? Or does it just make the air smell like McDonald's?

smartguyz · May 25, 2004

( Regular Diesel is selling for $1.69 in my market, why would I pay about $3.00 just to smell french fries when I run my tractor?

I'm not trying to be cheap, but the question is valid. Why would I pay such a premium? Will my engine run smoother and last longer without a rebuid? Will it start better when it is below freezing? Are there greater lubricating properties? Or does it just make the air smell like McDonald's?

)

These are all legitimate questions, Bob - and I agree with you. It doesn't make economic sense. However, my point was not to simply suggest that you or anyone else go out of your way to suddenly spend more on some weird new fuel. The point was to suggest some thinking about other kinds of fuel and other kinds of engines - I rely on my car and PT a lot, and to have it suddenly become crippled in the future by fuel costing some completely insane amount doesn't seem so strange these days.

My research seems to show that a viable alternative would be to run diesel engines on organically-produced fuel. I am reminded that the first time a Diesel engine was demonstrated at the World's Fair in 1900, it ran on peanut oil. Sounds like a pretty nifty idea.

Perhaps we can grow our own peanuts, make our own oil, and power our PT's with it. We could even call them 'Peanut Tracs'.

I just wanted to fuel a discussion (pun intended).

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dummy · May 25, 2004

How about Gasohol? Remeber that stuff? It was supposed to be a boon for the farmers with less dependence on OPEC. Well, where'd it go?? Seems like all we get now is "oxygenated" stuff that costs more to add.....AIR.

Bob_Skurka · May 25, 2004

Dummy . . . gasohol was expensive and if I remember correctly was too caustic, it ate away the gaskets & seals in the engines.

Rob . . . Not trying to start an arguement, but I constantly try to justify alternatives to improve efficiency, land quality, the enviornment, etc. Last week I got a bid on a solar water heater system from King Solar. The bid did not include labor & installation, it also did not include the back-up water heater that is needed in my climate. The system included an 80 gallon storage tank a solar collector and the cost was just a shade over $3000. I can't remember if that was a delivered price or not. It just doesn't make sense. In fact there is no way possible I could save enough money on my natural gas bill to ever justify the cost of adding a $3000 solar booster to my hot water system.

I guess that is my point right now with biodiesel if it is running near $3/gallon.

A basic photovoltaic grid for my home, not installed, was priced out a few weeks ago. That price was a slightly more than $10,000, plus installation. Assume a $2000 cost to install, for a $12,000 total investment. It would meet most of my electrical needs but not all. My current electric bill runs about $200 per month, assume I'd save 80% of that bill if I install the solar array and my monthly bill would drop to $40, saving me about $160 per month. The payback on the system would be 6 years and 3 months. That assumes there are no maintainence costs during that period, and it assumes that I would not have invested that $12,000 in any other way. It also assume that there is no state tax credit for installing solar in my state (and to be honest, I don't know if there is or not) but in some states the tax credits make the payback of a solar array much more attractive. So solar electric is pretty good, but not quite a good idea for MOST people who have a reasonable utility rate and live "on the grid."

Biodiesel is, in my mind, similar to solar electricity. It is almost a good idea, but it still has a way to go. Now I would still go back to my original question and ask if it is in some way BETTER for my engine? Does it lubricate better? Does it make my engine run longer? Etc.

Schultz · May 25, 2004

About the only thing I can think of is it won't have the sulfur and maybe other particulate in the fuel that comes out during combustion. This may allow for extended oil changes, but that's only speculation. However, no sulfur would help reduce acid rain problems.

So, it likely boils down to supply & demand. The production supply is low so cost is high.

Or maybe it's the chicken & the egg thing. We want it but not all are willing to spend the extra money, therefore it will never really get to high production and low cost.

Tim

hazmat · May 25, 2004

Now I would still go back to my original question and ask if it is in some way BETTER for my engine? Does it lubricate better? Does it make my engine run longer? Etc.


It is supposed to have better "lubricity".

Check here for more info biodiesel.org