How accurate is a property line survey?

[tractor888]

Here's my story.... I got a wood fence between neighbor's vacant subdivision lot. The fence was there over 30 years ago and believe to be right on the property line. Recently, the new owner of the vacant lot is building a new house. He ask me if I would like to pay half the cost of building a new masonary wall. I said "no... my existing wooden fence is fine for me. A new masonary wall doesn't match with my house since I have the same fence on the other side. If you want to build a wall, build it on your side of the property and I have nothing to do with it."

A few months later, a surveyor put a few stakes and markings near the property line then he notify me that my fence is 3 inches over on his property and demand that I must tear down my fence or take me to court.

I tried to google for an answer but didn't find anything that I can understand. What is the tolerance of a property line survery? It can't be exactly on the sport right? Is it a +/- a few inches? a foot or +/- a certain percentage of tolerance like any type of scientific measurements?

I contacted an attorney I found off the phone book and he said he can challenge that and help me fight to keep the fence. However, it will be a couple of thousands of dollar to start for his fee ($350 per hour) and another thousand or so for a survey by a different surveyor who works for me. Right now, I really don't have the money for this crap... Is the anything I can DYI to challenge something that's off by 3 inches and protect my interest without paying thousands for a lawyer? Also, it not practical to tear down and move the fence either because it's a 30+ year old rustic looking cedar fence. It will fall part... Is this neighbor just want to be a pain in the rear and out to get me or is 3 inches such a big deal that the court will hear the case?

 

[CurlyDave]

I have had surveys be off by several feet, not inches and the surveyors seemed to think this was perfectly fine.

If the "true" line is really 3" from the fence line, depending on your state law, you may have an "adverse possession" claim against him for the 3" of land.

Also, it is very rare for courts to order the removal of any existing structure.

Ask a few more attorneys what to do. This can probably be settled by a letter from your mouthpiece to his pointing out the adverse possession issue, and that 3" isn't worth fighting over.

Unfortunately any landowner is a target for this kind of suit and there isn't much you can do about it without a lawyer.

Check to see if you have any insurance that covers it, sometimes title insurance and sometimes homeowners insurance will cover you.

I think he is just threatening you to get you to pay for half of a new fence.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Given your situation, and lack of funds to fight it, my response to him would be something like this:

"Oh, did I say my fence? I must have been mistaken. Funny, it's 30 years old and my memory just isn't what it used to be. Well, if it's on your property, I guess it's your fence. When and if you remove it, I do hope that you won't be disturbing anything on my property."

But, given the way you spoke when he asked you about sharing the cost of a new fence, I don't blame him for his recent actions.

 

[coveredbridge]

I've been told that with the GPS tools that are now used in surveys, that property lines can be identified to within fractions of an inch. Before GPS, surveys could be off by several feet, as Curly Dave noted.

So, it certainly seems possible that a GPS based survey could accurately identify such an error in a property line that was last surveyed 30 yrs ago.

 

[xlr82v2]

I'd say "see you in Court". That fence is on MY ground, and it's been MY ground for the last 30 years... your survey guys are wrong.

No way in hades I'd let some new guy come in and start claiming my land as his own, I don't care what HIS surveyors say.

But, that's just me

 

[Charlesaf3]

I used to practice law in Mass, not Cali. so take this for what its worth.

You've got a good adverse possession claim. Which will cost you. I'd wait and see if he sues you - sure the court will hear it, but he may also decide its not worth the money. No downside to being sued in this situation really.

If you said exactly what you posted, I'm with WCH - that's a good way to get things started. I'd try and restore neighbor relations out of court.

Isn't a 30 year old rustic cedar fence about to tear itself down? That maybe the neighbors main objection - your "rustic" and his "eyesore" might be the same thing.

 

[Skyco]

The new owner should have seen the fence turn up on his survey before he closed. Maybe he didn't get one done, although it is usually a requirement for a loan, maybe he paid cash.

I put in about 1000 ft of chain link some years back. I asked neighbors on both sides if they would like to split the cost and put it on the line.
Nope.
2 weeks after I paid for and had installed the whole thing one of the neighbors was having a fence company put posts on MY side of the line to tie into and use MY fence.
I had put the fence 1 ft inside the line just to be sure the line wasn't crossed accidently and also suspecting the one jerk er.. excuse me, neighbor might try some funny business..
He was ordered to remove his posts on my property. Not wanting to be a complete jerk (like he was) I did allow him to span the gap from a post on HIS land to one on MY land with fence fabric, but I dang sure wasn't going to allow posts over the line.

 

[mjarrels]

I have a good friend who is in the survey business... sez the right property can be surveyed without getting out of the truck!

mark

 

[chadincolo]

I had put the fence 1 ft inside the line just to be sure the line wasn't crossed accidently and also suspecting the one jerk er.. excuse me, neighbor might try some funny business..

What I'm about to say depends on state laws, so check accordingly:

Here in Colorado, if your neighbor has use of that 1 foot of your land, mows it, uses it as his own, I hope you have him sign a yearly lease for it, or in a few years it will be his. It's called adverse possession, he uses it as his own with no objection from you for I believe 7 years, he has a legal right to that land. Again, state laws, I believe adverse possession is largely a western thing, where property descriptions are "From point x, Westerly 5 miles to point y, commencing Southerly 10 miles to point z..." The fences became the property lines, and the law said if you didn't want someone else's animals on your property, you must fence them out, so fences were usually up on property lines. Concepts and laws in the west are strange and foreign to some people I've talked to from the East Coast and the South...

 

[tractor888]

.........

If you said exactly what you posted, I'm with WCH - that's a good way to get things started. I'd try and restore neighbor relations out of court.

Isn't a 30 year old rustic cedar fence about to tear itself down? That maybe the neighbors main objection - your "rustic" and his "eyesore" might be the same thing.

I think that was pretty close to if not the exact words I said. I don't want a block wall and I want to keep my fence.... Did you guys read it as offesive or being rude to this new guy in town? This is over the phone and I never met the owner in person yet. Just curious, why should I paid to put in a new wall on one side and a still have my cedar wood fence on the other side? My house has wood siding. He's building a manson with stucco and concrete tile roof. Should I tear down my house and the rest of the fence to match with his???
Why can't he build his wall on his side of the property and leave my fence alone? If my fence is an "eyesore" then why did he choose to buy the property to build here? He never mention he was going to live here either. He could be just real estate developer wants build and sell for a profit. A lot of building has been going on here in the past few years. The fence was there before he bought the property and start building. What if the next guy comes along and say my house is an eyesore???

I don't know why I should or have a need to build any relation with someone like that? I really don't care about the 3" of land. I care more about the fence and keeping things the way it is. If I have extra money laying around, I rather get a new tractor