How do you properly use brakes for turning and why

beenthere · Jan 27, 2006

bncsauve
Maybe that is true for the Kubota, but my individual rear brakes work also when I am in 4wd. I am sure that in 4wd, the only thing different from 2wd is that the front wheels are 'powered' and the rear wheels still function through the rear differential. Now locking the rear differential is a different story with regards the individual brakes.

Either the Kubota's are different, or this comment is very misleading. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

stevenf · Jan 27, 2006

I guess I'll reply to yours Scott although it sounds like 4wd is OK on or off but I'm excited enough about this I may go plow by headlight tonight just to try it. Are you guys saying that rather then what I've been doing which is a straight line then drive to the other paralel side and go straight down it over and over until I meet one side with the other in the middle I can actually go straight to end right turn right brake and turn sharp enough around to reverse and go back down the row right next to the previously plowed row. This is really going to save me a bunch of hours OH baby I gotta get done here at work and ride the beast. If anyone sees an error in my previous description of what I think I understand chime in Please otherwise I'll be riding my tractor by dark and smiling like an idiot. Thanks everybody for your help your gonna teach this city boy gone country yet.
Steve

RalphVa · Jan 27, 2006

I used the turning brakes a lot when I was a kid. Get to the end of a row when plowing, turn steering wheel really fast, hit the brake to the side you're turning, and the tractor will spin around quite fast. I've used mine in 4wd at the end of my garden rows. Works pretty well. Gives tighter turns than by steering alone. Helps to keep the front wheels from skidding on turns.

I use the steering brakes when pushing snow with the FEL, too. The front wheels tend to skid on snow/ice. Using the steering brakes will then give you some directional control.

Ralph

Bird · Jan 27, 2006

I guess you know that you do want to lift the plow out of the ground before making that turn. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

stevenf · Jan 27, 2006

Bird, Yes Thank You for asking I had heard that you could break a disc or plow shank by turning sharply while engaged. But again I'm a newbie farmer so I appreciate your asking it would be my luck to be grinning like an idiot practicing turning with the brakes and be in one of my fields with the plow engaged and shear off all my shanks/discs or something. When I first started with the disc I didn't know the reason that farmers didn't just go round and round in a tighter and tighter spiral and someone on the site set me right about I'd be moving my dirt all over and creating "hips" I think he called them so I started doing the straight line alternating sides of the field thing. I will say all my fields came up nicely no matter how I plowed and disced them but lack of rain has killed the last 3 plantings down to the dirt. I can't even get a cover crop to grow to protect the soil from erosion course the only erosion I'd be dealing with in the last 9 months would be wind. They are forecasting rain tonight and we're all praying I hope it doesn't turn out to be one of those be careful what you wish for rains or I'll lose all my top soil.
Steve

keeney · Jan 28, 2006

The rear brakes are also useful for minor tweaks in direction while pushing snow with a front balde using down-force to scrape the pavement clean, or using the FEL with downforce for smoothing or scraping. Even through the front wheels might be off the ground, you can keep your course using the individual rear brakes.

Also, when plowing snow with the front blade, you can really whip around quickly on the slick surface to go back and make another pass. The front blade takes longer to angle from left to right than the time it takes to make a 180 on my little JD 4100.

- Rick

robison · Jan 28, 2006

( I have to respectfully disagree. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Even in 4wd, the front wheels work through a differential, so that one can turn a lot while the other turns a little. In fact, I probably use my brakes more for turning when in 4wd, than when not. Usually, I'm in 4wd because I need the extra traction and often, that's the same time when steering/turning with the steering wheel and front wheels just isn't enough. Plowing snow with my rear blade or plowing/disking my small fields (turning sharply at the end of the field after raising the plow or disk) are two occasions I frequently do this. )

With all due respect, the above is not quite right. Applying a right or left wheel brake while in 4wd will not produce the result it will in 2WD.

Here's why:

Imaging a tractor with same size tires front and rear, and a 2:1 axle ratio. The drive shaft turns at 1 rpm. What speed do the backs wheels turn? 1/2 rpm.

But when you apply the right brake and stop the right wheel the left wheel has to speed up. If the right wheel is at 0, the left wheel will turn 1 rpm.

Now, if you want to spin in a circle that's good - one wheel is stopped and the other turns so you pivot.

Now add 4wd - - the front driveshaft is turning the front wheels. So before you apply the brake all 4 wheels are turning 1/2 rpm.

You stop the right rear wheel by applying the brake.

The result is this: front wheels turning 1/2 rpm each. Left rear wheel turning 1 rpm. Right rear wheel stopped.

You will have considerable wheel drag and wasted energy along with strain on the drive line.

For that reason using individual brakes in 4wd is not a good idea with the type of 4wd used on compact tractors. The more sophisticated systems used on articulated loaders and the like work differently.

Keoke · Jan 29, 2006

Steve, rear brakes are useful for steering tractor when back dragging in reverse with bucket downward downward pressure lifting front wheels off the ground.

cheers,

rdbrumfield · Jan 29, 2006

With the older tractors especially the tricycle type and the ones that would almost turn square, the brake steering worked great. I find that with newer ones, I should say the newer ones with loaders and 4wd making the frontends heavier the brake steering has become more of an assist for steering in soft ground. I use mine just enough to help the tractor turn and don't try to slide the front around.
One thing to watch for is that you don't try to brake to turn if the interlock is engaged, will have a pretty good repair bill.
I am sure that we all have our own ways of doing things as we hang ever increasing implements on the rear for chores, and the prize for that is easier steering.

jinman · Jan 29, 2006

( Applying a right or left wheel brake while in 4wd will not produce the result it will in 2WD. )

If you had just made that statement, I would have to agree. I think differential braking works better/easier in 2WD, but it is very effective and safe in MFWD also.

Very few of our CUTs are true 4WD. At best, with differential lock, we get 3WD. I can't tell you how many times I've been in MFWD and looked down to see one rear wheel turning and one front wheel turning and two tires just sitting there because they had more traction than the ones turning. Would you say this is bad on the differential? I don't think so. I think most people would say the differential is working just like it should. Then why would you think it's bad on the driveline if I force this same circumstance with one of the rear brakes?

If I'm in loose or soft soil, it is surely not hard on the driveline (beyond design) to do this kind of "turn assist" braking. In many instances, we are not talking about oversteering, but just keeping the front end from understeering. Granted, the end-row spin around is going to happen with a locked tire, but that will be in field soil and tire slip on the front should be aided by the weight of the raised implement on the 3PH.

I use differential braking a lot on my tractor and my driveline responds well in 4WD and 2WD. I have noticed that in 2WD there seems to be less front end push and it's a little easier to produce oversteer if I step down on the brake.

Essentially, I'd say I would not recommend using MFWD on hard surfaces or pavement. It goes without saying that I would not use MFWD and differential steering on those surfaces. I'd first change to 2WD. In dirt or especially in tilled or loose soil, I just use differential braking anytime I need it.