How far is too far?

[cvpuser]

I've been wondering about my TC40 (with 16LA Loader and 6-foot rotory cutter on the 3Pt Hitch), and just how far this rig will lean to the side before rolling over. I have a bank around my pond that I don't cut because I'm not sure whether my beloved blue with roll with me. Any thoughts or experience to share? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

This is a question that is often of hot debate.

Some people will claim 25 degrees. Some will say 10 makes your rear pucker and 15 might roll you over.

I know that I have a couple of hills that are at, or above 25 degrees and I keep my tractors off those hills with the exception of one that is about 20 degrees from the road going down to my valley area. That drop is about 15' vertical, the tractors cannot climb it unless they are in low gear, if the FEL is on they can struggle up in 2wd, or they can make the climb easily in 4wd. There is no way I would even consider running across the slope with a CUT.

I have a Ventrac 3000 which is basically a slope mower with a weight transfer system, that little tractor will easily traverse the slope, do figure "8's" on the thing, or "u" turns. However, even with that unit, there are some steep spots where that tractor slides down while doing a traverse.

Personally, I think at 15 degrees you are in some very dangerous territory with a typical CUT if you are crossing the slope. TBN sells Tilt Meters.

 

[schacht]

Even if the slope alone wouldn't make the tractor roll, I would be very careful. Pond edges may sometimes collapse unexpectedly, such as when they become undercut by the burrowing of muskrats, turtles, etc. or where underground springs enter and soften the earth. Such a collapse, even if minor, could cause a tractor to roll or slide into the pond.

I have two ponds and keep a healthy distance when on my TC45D. I trim around them with a walk-behind unit. More work, but much better on my nerves.

Tom Schacht

 

[jinman]

I just mowed around my ponds this last weekend, and I mowed the pond dams all the way down to the water by turning and backing down the slope on each side of the dam (pond on one side, lake on the other). These dams are so steep I can't even walk up and down without slipping, but my tractor does it with ease. I'll try to get some pictures to show you what/how I mow the dams. I'll shoot a couple of photos tonight (Tues. night) and post them.

Of course, I do this with a TC45D. If you don't have a hydrostatic transmission, I don't recommend this method.

While I was cutting a path for my neighbor, I drove off a dropoff on the side of the road and my whole tractor slid sideways. It wasn't muddy, it was just the weight of my TC45D sliding down the hill. Had there been a bump to catch a wheel, I might have tilted over. As it was, I just used differential locking and differential braking to slowly swing the front wheels down the path and bring the tractor to an angle I could back up the slope and onto the trail. Whew! My pucker was so tight it took an hour to loosen up. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I personally think a tiltmeter is useful only as something to watch while you are rolling over and over. I suppose if you want to use it to measure the slope of your hills, it might be okay. But I don't think I've ever been in a near rollover situation that didn't happen when I wasn't even aware I was near any danger. I was always surprised by a hole or a bump I didn't see that was hidden in the grass, or I was distracted at the wrong moment. ...just my personal $0.02 on tiltmeters. If you want one, get one, because I could also be wrong.

 

[kensfarm]

That's one reason I got a sicklebar.. when I got the BB600.. the 1000lbs sticking out that far made the slopes by the road banks feel unsafe. I've done the backing down to mow the banks.. but after I had put a fence along the road.. it's no longer an option. Go slow.. 4 wheel drive in lock.. and if you have the FEL on.. lower it as close to the ground as possible. I know you can try to prevent rolling over if you turn down hill if you feel the tractor is tipping. ROPS up!! Seatbelt on!!
Be Safe! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[cvpuser]

Very interesting discussion. Thanks.

A neighbor of mine (who is a mechanical engineer) said that I'd be fine as long as the tractor's center of gravity is on the uphill side of the centerline. Makes sense, but that would put the tractor at a 40+ degree angle before it rolls. I can't imagine going that far. My bank is probably in the 15 degree range for most of the way, and has a short area that's close to 25 degrees.

I watch the road crews mowing the steep banks along the interstate and they've got to be traversing a 30+ degree bank. They seem to have no problem.

So far, I've only dared mow around the pond by pointing my nose uphill and backing up to the water line and going forward and backward all the way around the pond. It's about an acre-sized pond, so that's a couple of hours of work. Also, the clutch begins to smell hot after a while and I turn the tractor off to let the clutch cool. Not optimal.

Anyway, I'm always tempted to traverse the bank, but I'm just not sure. I thought about putting a tilt-o-meter on it, but I agree with you, jinman -- I doubt it's accuracy.

Anyway, I appreciate all of your opinions. It helps.

 

[mahlers]

In a static situation, you can go to some really extreme angles. But, dynamic stability is a whole different ball game. You could be traversing a ten degree hill that's well within the static GC stability region and hit a rut that causes you to immediately go unstable by accelerating the CG up/down and side-to-side. It's that side-to-side accelerative force that can flip you over. The main point of contact is your downhill tire's ground contact point, and the CG is obviously above that. If the combination of static (gravity) and dynamic (accelerative) forces on the lever-arm between the point of contact and the CG are big enough, over you go.

 

[DAP]

TO move up to the next level of precision, determining a 'BANK' angle is only part of the story if you plan on staying upright.

A 6 degree bank with a hole or bump will dynamically change all the math and send you and your machine on a ride you'd rather not take.

Now, change the math some more and add a loader or a rear implement.

It's a fluid situtation literally.

Since it's not practical to calculate these equations, we are left with common sense.

Examine alternatives.
Walk the terrain and map it your minds eye very carefully.
Determine the most severe angle you'll encounter and rule it out or in.

Rolling over is one thing - and very survivable providing you've got a rops and are using the belt.

Rolling over into water is another thing entirely. Don't depend on a ROPS or a belt to save your life if you roll over into water. In fact, they may kill you.

I say, examine the alternatives.

 

[paccorti]

You could go really fast around the pond like a NASCAR. That bank will come in handy then! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Peter

 

[jinman]

Here is a photo of one of my ponds I mow around by repeatedly backing my rotary cutter over the edge. With my hydrostatic tranny, I can do the whole job in a little over 1/2 hour and never even touch the brake. Having water on both sides of the bank makes me always pay attention. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif