jgrreed
Platinum Member
Hi Everyone,
I have some time to kill, and I remember very clearly just how intimidating the hydraulic/valve/switch world was when I started planning my project almost 2 years ago.
I'm not an expert, and there certainly are experts on here, so please chime in and make suggestions or corrections on this 'decision tree'. I'll edit this first post as suggestions are made.
Big thanks to all of you who have patiently nursed me to this level of knowledge. You know who you are!!! I owe you a Corona. :licking:
ABOVE ALL ELSE, REMEMBER THIS: HYDRAULICS ARE NOT TO BE MESSED WITH!!! (please don't censor that, it's important) THEY WILL MAIM YOU, OR IF YOU'RE REALLY HAVING A BAD DAY, KILL YOU. SEEK HELP. HIRE A SHOP IF NEED BE.
I think you can all imagine what your head looks like after a circuit fails while lifting a 2000lb item, and said item gives your knoggin' a lovetap. I doubt many of you know what an 'high pressure injection injury' is, but I do, and I've seen it, and it'll ruin your livelihood, and life.
First, you need to set out your goals. What are you trying to do??
Add some circuits for hyd cylinders? Are they double acting or single acting?
Add some for Hyd motors? Do you want them to be reversible? Are they to spin at 1000rpm like a weed wacker, or at 1rpm for a blower chute rotator?
If motors are in your thoughts, what flow and pressure does your tractor provide?? Most CUT hydro systems don't offer enough flow and pressure to do much of anything. You can run the custom weed wacker described on here, but a snowblower is out of the question, as is a broom, or a post hole digger. If you don't have enough flow &/or pressure, you'll need to power your system from a PTO driven pump, build a reservoir, plumb large bore lines, etc. $$$
How many new circuits? Front or back or your tractor?.. or both??
Then, some questions to answer (from your machine, and owners/shop manual):
1. What type of hydraulic system is on your tractor - open or closed center? Most CUT's are OC.
2. What is the flow rate that is available to your current circuits? Make sure you look at what is available to THE CIRCUITS - some manufacturers - like JD quote the total pump output, but some of that flow gets stolen for steering, etc, and is NOT available to run the front mounted hydro driven Harley Rake you just bought at an auction for 1000 bucks.
3. What pressure does your system run at?
4. What kits (ie Power Beyond, pre-made plumbing kits, etc) are available from your manufacturer?
5. What type of Quick-Disconnects (QD's) do you want to use? Same as what are already on there? Are they 'Pioneer' or 'Skidsteer' style?? I think there are other options - please help me fill in the blanks... What size are they?
6. What size is the plumbing - lines and connectors - on your machine right now? Is it enough to properly handle the flow you are proposing?
Then some Q's for you, and your pocketbook:
1. How sexy/sophisticated do you want/need?
Are you OK with a diverter type system - where one lever controls 2 different circuits depending on the position of a switch?? or do you want control of all circuits at all times without having to do the mental gymnastics of thowing swtiches and remembering if left-right commands top n' tilt, or grapple open, or bring me a coffee.
Do you want old school, reliable lever valves? (nothin' wrong with them!) $
Do you want buttons or spring loaded rocker switches on a F-22 style grip that returns to a center detent (ie- momentary - depicted as (on)/off/(on) - (xx) meaning that part is spring loaded) to control this new system (ie- an electrohydraulic system)? $$
If you want switches, do you want 'basic' (ie - solenoid - (on)/off/(on) ) or proportional (ie - you can feather the circuit - the more you push the slider/rocker ahead, the faster the circuit moves). A much less expensive option is a solenoid EH system with manual flow control valves in the circuits. This allows you to make your blade angles at a reasonable speed, but allow you to stop your killer jaws grapple from slamming shut like a Bond torture device. These can be put in the valve manifold ($$, look cleaner), or be in-line needle valves ($, a bit unsightly, cause some fluid heating).
A proportional system requires a circuitboard 'controller', some programming, a PhD in something, and proportional style valves. $$$$$.
2. If you're planning on running a motor, do you want a switch that is 'always on'?? I think this is called a 'continuous' switch and is depicted as on/off/on. (correct me if I'm wrong). One can have a momentary switch, and a momentary switch, run the same valve - ie if you want to use the same switch for a grapple and a motor that is to run continuously (ie the weed wacker) This can be explained later.
3. OK, now that you've dreamed up a trigger switch, thumb hat, missile lock, GPS laser guided rototilling killing machine - How much do you have to spend?
From what I can see levers will get you into the 100's, maybe low 1000's. A solenoid EH sustem will easily get you over 1000, likely 2-4000, and a proportional system you'll likely need a government grant of some kind.
Valves
to follow.....
Switches
to follow.....
Lines/Plumbing
To follow....
Places to source kits and parts
To follow....
I hope this helps, and isn't discouraging. Forge ahead. Save your pennies or hit a salvage yard, depending on your style and budget. It's an extremely interesting topic and skillset - it's fun!!
Phew!! Thinking is tiring...... I'm pooped after putting this down. Please chime in and add anything you feel may help with this, or will make it easier to follow for a newbie!! I'll add more later.
If anyone else is bored, an easy to follow "How I think through adding worklights" post would rock!! A "How I think through a PTO driven high flow system" would Rock too. Rock like Aldous Snow's "African Child".....
-Jer.
I have some time to kill, and I remember very clearly just how intimidating the hydraulic/valve/switch world was when I started planning my project almost 2 years ago.
I'm not an expert, and there certainly are experts on here, so please chime in and make suggestions or corrections on this 'decision tree'. I'll edit this first post as suggestions are made.
Big thanks to all of you who have patiently nursed me to this level of knowledge. You know who you are!!! I owe you a Corona. :licking:
ABOVE ALL ELSE, REMEMBER THIS: HYDRAULICS ARE NOT TO BE MESSED WITH!!! (please don't censor that, it's important) THEY WILL MAIM YOU, OR IF YOU'RE REALLY HAVING A BAD DAY, KILL YOU. SEEK HELP. HIRE A SHOP IF NEED BE.
I think you can all imagine what your head looks like after a circuit fails while lifting a 2000lb item, and said item gives your knoggin' a lovetap. I doubt many of you know what an 'high pressure injection injury' is, but I do, and I've seen it, and it'll ruin your livelihood, and life.
First, you need to set out your goals. What are you trying to do??
Add some circuits for hyd cylinders? Are they double acting or single acting?
Add some for Hyd motors? Do you want them to be reversible? Are they to spin at 1000rpm like a weed wacker, or at 1rpm for a blower chute rotator?
If motors are in your thoughts, what flow and pressure does your tractor provide?? Most CUT hydro systems don't offer enough flow and pressure to do much of anything. You can run the custom weed wacker described on here, but a snowblower is out of the question, as is a broom, or a post hole digger. If you don't have enough flow &/or pressure, you'll need to power your system from a PTO driven pump, build a reservoir, plumb large bore lines, etc. $$$
How many new circuits? Front or back or your tractor?.. or both??
Then, some questions to answer (from your machine, and owners/shop manual):
1. What type of hydraulic system is on your tractor - open or closed center? Most CUT's are OC.
2. What is the flow rate that is available to your current circuits? Make sure you look at what is available to THE CIRCUITS - some manufacturers - like JD quote the total pump output, but some of that flow gets stolen for steering, etc, and is NOT available to run the front mounted hydro driven Harley Rake you just bought at an auction for 1000 bucks.
3. What pressure does your system run at?
4. What kits (ie Power Beyond, pre-made plumbing kits, etc) are available from your manufacturer?
5. What type of Quick-Disconnects (QD's) do you want to use? Same as what are already on there? Are they 'Pioneer' or 'Skidsteer' style?? I think there are other options - please help me fill in the blanks... What size are they?
6. What size is the plumbing - lines and connectors - on your machine right now? Is it enough to properly handle the flow you are proposing?
Then some Q's for you, and your pocketbook:
1. How sexy/sophisticated do you want/need?
Are you OK with a diverter type system - where one lever controls 2 different circuits depending on the position of a switch?? or do you want control of all circuits at all times without having to do the mental gymnastics of thowing swtiches and remembering if left-right commands top n' tilt, or grapple open, or bring me a coffee.
Do you want old school, reliable lever valves? (nothin' wrong with them!) $
Do you want buttons or spring loaded rocker switches on a F-22 style grip that returns to a center detent (ie- momentary - depicted as (on)/off/(on) - (xx) meaning that part is spring loaded) to control this new system (ie- an electrohydraulic system)? $$
If you want switches, do you want 'basic' (ie - solenoid - (on)/off/(on) ) or proportional (ie - you can feather the circuit - the more you push the slider/rocker ahead, the faster the circuit moves). A much less expensive option is a solenoid EH system with manual flow control valves in the circuits. This allows you to make your blade angles at a reasonable speed, but allow you to stop your killer jaws grapple from slamming shut like a Bond torture device. These can be put in the valve manifold ($$, look cleaner), or be in-line needle valves ($, a bit unsightly, cause some fluid heating).
A proportional system requires a circuitboard 'controller', some programming, a PhD in something, and proportional style valves. $$$$$.
2. If you're planning on running a motor, do you want a switch that is 'always on'?? I think this is called a 'continuous' switch and is depicted as on/off/on. (correct me if I'm wrong). One can have a momentary switch, and a momentary switch, run the same valve - ie if you want to use the same switch for a grapple and a motor that is to run continuously (ie the weed wacker) This can be explained later.
3. OK, now that you've dreamed up a trigger switch, thumb hat, missile lock, GPS laser guided rototilling killing machine - How much do you have to spend?
From what I can see levers will get you into the 100's, maybe low 1000's. A solenoid EH sustem will easily get you over 1000, likely 2-4000, and a proportional system you'll likely need a government grant of some kind.
Valves
to follow.....
Switches
to follow.....
Lines/Plumbing
To follow....
Places to source kits and parts
To follow....
I hope this helps, and isn't discouraging. Forge ahead. Save your pennies or hit a salvage yard, depending on your style and budget. It's an extremely interesting topic and skillset - it's fun!!
Phew!! Thinking is tiring...... I'm pooped after putting this down. Please chime in and add anything you feel may help with this, or will make it easier to follow for a newbie!! I'll add more later.
If anyone else is bored, an easy to follow "How I think through adding worklights" post would rock!! A "How I think through a PTO driven high flow system" would Rock too. Rock like Aldous Snow's "African Child".....
-Jer.
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