How long do USA auto manufacturers HAVE TO keep parts available ?

[The Fred]

Here we go......


Friend at the Ford dealer tells me they lemon lawed 4 cars since 1st of January. 3 for parts that are not available yet.

The latest was a C-Max electric wannabee that needed a module, Ford said 2 year wait for the part. This on a car in service for 3 months. Dealer simply lemon lawed the POS.

I work on European junks everyday all day. I do see that some parts are simply not available any longer. Last week I had a 2006 VW Rabbit that needed a 3rd brake light LED assembly. The part is available but the air deflector that the light sits in is NLA. Since the spoiler is glued to the car I shipped to a bodyshop where they abruptly broke the spoiler in 2 pieces trying to remove it. Glad I didn't tackle it.

Yes very sad these days. Who's going to support this stuff when it gets old? NOBODY unless it's highly sought after vehicle. Cars are appliances in the end.

Fred

 

[houstonscott]

Again, the answer is 10 years.

HS

 

[Capricious]

Again, the answer is 10 years.

HS

You might cite a source for your assertion.

 

[crazyal]

While this isn't automotive based the equipment I work on uses lots of standard off the shelf parts (mostly electronic and pneumatic). The original suppliers just sold the parts with no guarantee that they would make that specific part tomorrow (let alone 10 years from now). because of this some parts are impossible to get, some parts have had expensive modifications done to them to retro fit them, while some parts are still in production.

Video monitors are a great example, the vacuum tube monitor is dead. 5 years ago that wasn't the case. Because of how they display the image vs LCD (and others) panels the interface technology doesn't work. Another simple part we are having issues with are stepper motors (electric motors). The company just decided that they weren't going to make them and poof you can't buy them. A model T had few parts, today's cars have a lot more parts and rely on components that may not be available in a few short years from now.

Most likely popular items will not fade too fast. This is only an example but say the manufacturer of generic electric motors that were bought by the company that builds window regulators or power seats stops making them (they have no contract with auto company) then what's the supplier going to do? If the electric motor company is still in business then the supplier could have custom ones made and send the cost through the roof.

My point is that today's cars are much more complex. The company who makes one of the chips inside an electric module could sell the chip to another company that then sells it to a third company who then sells it to the company that solders it to a circuit board who then sells it to the company that put it in to a module that then sells it to Ford. The parts supply chain is also very complex. Most likely Ford (I'm just using their name as an example) may not even know who actually built each chip. Who's to say the fab in China that built the chip will still be in business in 5 years? What happens when old stock is gone? I doubt auto mfgs will invest tons of money buying parts that may never sell? For example what if Ford assumes that they module will last 5 years and orders a ten year supply only to find out the module last 20 or more years? What if it only lasts two years and after 5 years the part can't be bought anymore than the existing stock is used up? Will they spend the R&D to design a replacement part? If so when will be the cut off? I see this as being a much bigger problem in the future than today.

 

[ultrarunner]

A lot of this is due to outsourcing...

There was a time when auto companies make their own parts or at least most of them.

The wood in a Model A came from a Ford forest was transported on Ford rail cars to a Ford ship and then fabricated in a Ford shop for installation on the Ford assembly line... same for iron ore and vanadium steel... Ford made the wheels, transmission, differential, axles etc...

I run into this on a daily basis with medical equipment... today I have a very expensive Nitrous Oxide Hospital gas manifold system and the parts I checked on are no longer made... was told I could have the sales staff quote me for replacement... same with the fluoro scans that use CRT monitors... simply no only made... just like control pendants for 40k OR tables or Patient Monitors that cost 10k a pop...

 

[3930dave]

Cars became a lot more reliable for basic operations.... then along came the complexity of today's machines. That inverted bathtub curve kinda thing going on with reliability....

As a friend's nephew (lic'd mech) puts it, "We are called automotive technicians, in part because we just change the component the computer tells us to".

I chat with a neighbour (HVAC contractor) about control systems now and then. I know what you describe CrazyAl is bad enough that he's gone to what I call an open source platform, to replace older controls. Hardware pricing is reasonable, and so long as you know control theory (not a given, but we're not talking rocket surgery here.....) then reconfiguring this generic plaform to replace an NLA dedicated control is way better than replacing an entire boiler, chiller...... The only open-source equivalent I know of on the automotive side is Megasquirt for engines.

Knock wood, I haven't had to fight out a lemon-law car situation.... but I get the impression that for various historical reasons, lemon-laws are typically at the State or Provincial level.

Just tracked down a driver's window switch as a favour to somebody. '07 Accord..... even aftermarket was almost $300. OK, part of that is ridiculous Canadian pricing, but still....

Installed, that is a $500+ repair. One of the reasons I still like crank windows....

I don't look at an automobile as a mobile infotainment platform.... so I would personally trade complexity for longevity, any day..... being the Luddite that I am

Rgds, D.

 

[PoorPlowboy]

You really only shop OEM parts? For every example you have of an OEM part not available, i have an example of an OEM part that had a bad design and the aftermarket replacement is of better quality because it addressed the issue vs the OEM which has no interest in making there parts better after the fact.

As a person who deals with antique cars, I can get every part on an 1930 Ford Model A victoria, every part on 60's MGB, 60s Austin Healey. As such I dont expect there to be ever issues getting parts for cars in the future. Shure Jay lenno has a few examples were they have to fabricate parts for one-off rare cares, but such things didnt exist in the 80's or 90's so it wont be a problem in the future.

Find me a new gas tank for a 2009 Ford E-350 12 passenger 5.4L or a 2008 Ford 15 passenger E-350. Thieves stabbed a hole in two of my employers' to steal fuel and Ford said "NLA!!" We had to search far and wide and finally found a company that deals in used replacement fuel tanks exclusively to get anywhere.

 

[ultrarunner]

Find me a new gas tank for a 2009 Ford E-350 12 passenger 5.4L or a 2008 Ford 15 passenger E-350. Thieves stabbed a hole in two of my employers' to steal fuel and Ford said "NLA!!" We had to search far and wide and finally found a company that deals in used replacement fuel tanks exclusively to get anywhere.

Late model gas tanks are a real problem... plenty of thieves punching holes here...

The florist across the street from work simply cannot leave a car in his fenced year in full view of a main street...

Thieves have punched holes 3 times and taken Catalytic Convertors on another occasion.

And remember, gas tanks are very much a part of modern emission systems.

 

[3930dave]

And remember, gas tanks are very much a part of modern emission systems.

A very astute observation...... So, where is the EPA now ?

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Find me a new gas tank for a 2009 Ford E-350 12 passenger 5.4L or a 2008 Ford 15 passenger E-350. Thieves stabbed a hole in two of my employers' to steal fuel and Ford said "NLA!!" We had to search far and wide and finally found a company that deals in used replacement fuel tanks exclusively to get anywhere.

On an '09 - you have to go Used, or perhaps full custom..... wow, this is getting worse than I thought !

Rgds, D.