How Many Lumens?

/ How Many Lumens? #1  

Dennisfly

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2003
Messages
277
Location
Lake Anna, Virginia and Alleghany County, VA
Tractor
John Deere 4410
I want to replace the existing light fixture in my kitchen. It has 4-48" flourescent tubes and provides sufficient light. The kitchen is about 12' X 12'. I am considering BR30 or BR40 bulbs in either recessed or track lights. The neighbor has 6 recessed BR40 bulbs and they seem to provide more than adequate light.

I figured I need enough fixtures to provide approximately the same number of lumens as I have now. The flourescent 40 watt tubes are 2800 lumens each, times 4 = 11200 total. Conventional 65 watt BR40 bulbs are about 800 lumens each, times 6 = 4800 total.

I obviously screwed up somewhere. I'm considering lumens to be the perceived amount of light. Surely I don't need 14 can lights to equal my one 4 tube flourescent, do I?
 
/ How Many Lumens? #2  
My kitchen's slightly larger...I put in 6 can lights...3 are on one slider switch and the other 3 on a different slider switch...Works very well for me and has more than adequate light.

Don
 
/ How Many Lumens? #3  
recessed cans give more of a focused light so some gets lost in area where you are used to broad spread of light from tube lights. perhaps a combination of tube lights and cans for a better lighting ? 2 tubes and 6 cans ? this is really largely dependant on how your kitchen layout. you said you have a 12X12 kitchen ? that is pretty much the same size as mine and i am using 3 tube lights and have dedicated lights under the cabinents and one over sink area and its all i need.
 
/ How Many Lumens? #4  
A light source emits with an intensity in a given direction that is measured in candela. Manufacturers of lamps and lamp fittings issue diagrams that show the distribution of light intensity in all directions.

The pale green ray shows that this particular wide angle spot light emits 300 cd in a direction 30 degrees from its axis. The luminous intensity directly forward is 460 cd.

If there is a object in the path of this beam we still know nothing about how much light it is receiving. The candela value is independent of distance. One can think of it as the emission from the lamp, which then loses interest in what happens to the photons it has ejected. We need a new unit for the light energy moving through space in the direction of our object.

This unit of invisible light in transit is the lumen.

The official definition of the lumen, the unit of luminous flux, is:

The luminous flux dF of a source of luminous intensity I (cd) in an element of solid angle dR is given by dF = IdR

In plain English: The flux from a light source is equal to the intensity in candela multiplied by the solid angle over which the light is emitted, taking account of the varying intensity in different directions.

The candela is a unit of intensity: a light source can be emitting with an intensity of one candela in all directions, or one candela in just a narrow beam. The intensity is the same but the total energy flux from the lamp, in lumens, is not the same. The output from a lamp is usually quoted in lumens, summed over all directions, together with the distribution diagram in candela, shown above.

Another quantity that is often quoted in catalogues is lumens per watt. The lumen is formally derived from the candela, which is based on light of a single wavelength. A practical lamp of many wavelengths has the lumen output calculated from the wattage emitted as radiation multiplied by the luminous efficiency at each wavelength, as described in the section on the candela. This value is more important than conservators generally realise. The low luminous efficiency of tungsten lights, much loved by exhibition designers, forces the installation of air conditioning in climates where it would not otherwise be necessary.

The designer needs to translate this into light energy falling on an object at any distance from the lamp. It is this energy that makes the object visible and that fades the dye. The energy density striking the object is given in lumens per square metre, generally known as lux.

The candela value given for 60 degrees, 300, corresponds to 300 lumens streaming out into a cone of one steradian, according to the definition given above. One steradian covers one square metre on the surface of a globe of 1 metre radius. If our object were at this distance it would receive 300 lumens per square metre. To deduce the value for any other distance, just use the inverse square law. At 3 metres away from the lamp the flux on a square metre has fallen to one ninth of 300 lumens = 33. The lux value is therefore 33.

Most objects are lit from more than one light source, or from extended sources such as diffusing panels. The arithmetic becomes more complicated. The reader is referred to the specialist literature. There are also computer programs to calculate the lux at any point which is illuminated from several sources.

Note that the illumination of an object in lux is not a measure of the photochemical damaging power of the light. As I wrote above, the lux is derived from the lumen, which is derived from the candela, which is defined for monochromatic light. The lumen flux from a practical light source is the sum of the energy in each wavelength band, multiplied by the luminous efficiency of that wavelength. The lumen value contains no information about whether the light flux is dominated by energy in the luminously inefficient, but photochemically efficient, blue wavelength or, as with a tungsten lamp, is largely provided by luminously inefficient but photochemically relatively harmless radiation at the red end of the spectrum. Furthermore, the lux value does not fully describe the visibility of the object, which depends on its ability to re-direct light into the viewer's eye. All one can say is that if one doubles the lux on an object, from the same type of light source, the photochemical damage will double. The lux is therefore a rather vague unit, considering its central significance in controlling the museum environment. Why do we use it? Well, internet is supposed to be an interactive medium, so I welcome comments from those more deeply versed in light than I. It seems that nearly everything to do with light measurement comes from attempts to install economic office lighting. Until recently, office folk shuffled pieces of white paper, perfectly light scattering, covered with black marks (occasionally red), perfectly light absorbing. For this activity the candela, lumen and lux, with the luminous efficiency curve lurking in the background, form a useful quantitative toolkit. This toolkit is incomplete in a museum. We should be putting more emphasis on measuring the incident radiation, weighted according to photochemical potency, and measuring the visibility of the object, as luminance.
 
/ How Many Lumens? #5  
Heres a little selection guide that may help you figure out what you need. Cooper Lighting | Design | Easy Selection Guide | Step 1 At least it will give you an idea of the different lighting options. Without knowing your exact layout i cant really say how many lights you will need, but due to the nature of pot lights, your going to need a few. With a 8' ceiling a typical pot will give a cone of light about 6' in diameter. You should overlap the next fixture's cone so in reality its 5' circle of light. This can vary depending on the baffles used with the pot. There's lots of good info on the net. Google lighting design for ideas.
 
/ How Many Lumens? #6  
i agree with scooby's practical rule of thumb guide. figure each can will cover a circle of 6-8' radius depending on ceiling height. that is part of the reason why you will need more lights. a pattern of circles is not an efficient way to cover the surface of a square without significant overlap.

another thing to consider is your higher cabinets. a florescent fixture - especially a cloud light which emits lights from the sides as well as down - will throw a lot of light into your upper kitchen cabinets where a recessed light will throw hardly any light sideways. almost all the light from a recessed fixture goes down in a cone shape.

that is why when we remodeled our kitchen, we used two florescent cloud lights on one circuit and 6 cans on a dimmer on another circuit. we also added under cabinet task lighting that would directly illuminate the counter tops we were working on and a small light bar for accent lighting on the window sill just for effect.

believe me, when all the lights are on, it's bright as heck, but i would rather have that option in a kitchen than not having enough light. generally, we use the two florescent clouds for daily use, but some folks are sensitive to the florescent tubes (even the newer low flicker bulbs) so its really nice to have the can and task lighting as an option.

amp
 

Marketplace Items

2018 Chevy Traverse 3rd Row Seating (A61307)
2018 Chevy...
UNKNOWN  20 FLATBED GOOSENECK (A58216)
UNKNOWN 20...
MACK T/A DUMP TRUCK (A58375)
MACK T/A DUMP...
Adams 16T Tender Body (A61307)
Adams 16T Tender...
SALTYS MANFUFACTURING 500BBL FRAC TANK (A58214)
SALTYS...
2012 MACK GRANITE DAY CAB (A60736)
2012 MACK GRANITE...
 
Top