How much ballast is typically needed for a MX5800?

[4570Man]

Loaded tires AND the 700# blade would just barley lift the rears. I could get to 2400 psi on the hydraulics the the rears would lift. My system is only 2500psi. So I'd say 800# would max out the loader, and just barley leave the rears on the ground. At that point....That is the most the front axle can see. All the weight from the tire ballast + tractor weight + blade weight + loader and load.

The bushhog is 1600+, and hangs farther back than the blade. So I'd day the difference the front axle is seeing is significant. Also noted by the non-scientific visual reference of front tire squat

It's still possible to load it heavier by backing up. On a few occasions I've lifted the rears with loaded tires and the backhoe attached by grabbing something with the grapple and backing up. My hydraulics aren't strong enough to lift it with that ballast. I don't know what my backhoe weighs but I'd be surprised if the 3ph could lift an equal load so I'm at the upper end of the possible amount of ballast.

 

[rbtjr]

What type of stuff do you plan to weld? If no prior experience, I'd probably say stick or wire-feed using flux-core wire. I had only stick-welded and not for 20+ years, and when I got back into it I got a wire-feed machine and used flux-core wire. In no time I was making great welds (although more complex joints or orientations are still a challenge).

I wouldn't be afraid of the 110V units as long as you buy good quality and are OK with welding 1/4" material or thinner. They are great starter machines for under $500 new. Don't waste time/money on welders that are $300 or cheaper. Some people have had luck with them, but they are just not consistent/reliable from what I have seen.

Thanks, s219. I have zero welding experience. The last thing that I thought I would have welded if I could was some chain hooks on my ballast box, but I now plan on using the bolt-on type.

 

[TripleR]

I don't have access to proper scales, but sure wish someone would use their tractor and add, remove weight from the 3PH to see how much weight is actually taken off the front axles.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I don't have access to proper scales, but sure wish someone would use their tractor and add, remove weight from the 3PH to see how much weight is actually taken off the front axles.

I think that someone really should do that! :thumbsup: Proof of concept.

 

[4570Man]

I could drive my tractor about a hundred yards from its current location and use the city dump scales if they're willing. I've already done a small scale test with the results in another thread.

 

[sdef]

I don't have access to proper scales, but sure wish someone would use their tractor and add, remove weight from the 3PH to see how much weight is actually taken off the front axles.

I am going to do a seat of the pants function test by adding enough dry bags of concrete to the box until I can hit the FEL pressure relief in use and then carefully/slowly test this box weight with an empty bucket driving on shallow side hills (worst case) and maybe "bouncing" the weight box/3PH just a little bit on level ground when moving in a straight line slowly and seeing how the tractor reacts. Then remove dry bags of concrete until I feel safe, if it becomes a concern. Once I know the best weight, I will mix the concrete.

I have experience with my tractor getting light quickly while using the stump bucket and getting the teeth caught on an unseen root, and not having enough 3PH weight moving heavy objects with the FEL. There will be plenty of room in the weight box after the concrete installation to add additional, temporary weight as needed for a particular task so I can reach a good, safe, working balance between empty bucket and max FEL pressure.

Initial thinking is 1250# may be a good compromise and I will be initially purchasing concrete to reach this weight with a starting weight of ~ 1050#.

 

[GManBart]

I could drive my tractor about a hundred yards from its current location and use the city dump scales if they're willing. I've already done a small scale test with the results in another thread.

Someone did this in the past and posted the results. I don't recall who it was, but the load taken off the front axle was more than many people predicted.

 

[LD1]

Yea, I recall someone doing it once already, and IIRC it was on a larger 60-70hp tractor?

Not sure why we need a proof of concept though. Basic levers and physics.

Provided you have at least enough weight to keep the rear axle down.....the rear axle IS the fulcrum.

Measure the COG of the weight behind the rear axle centerline.....and measure the front axle to rear (wheelbase.)

If you have a wheelbase of 70", and a load center for your weight box that hangs 35" back....simple 2:1. For every 2 pounds added to the ballast box (BEYOND what keeps the rears on the ground) is 1# unloaded from the front axle when lifting max weight.

 

[Code54]

I personally use a 1400 pound counterweight on the rear of my MX5100. On several occasions I went to lift something out of the bed of my pick up up with more than a front end loader was really meant to pick up, say a pallet with sod or bagged dirt. The machine may lift the pallet 6" or so then hit the relief. I would pull the truck out and lower the load and could move it near the ground but my rear wheels would be very light and easily slip. I also have the tires loaded with rim guard.
My dealer stated he thought between 1400-1500 would be safe and seems to work pretty well. I was thinking about adding a few 100 more pounds just for the extra safety. Mine is home built and the weight is no more than 24" past the end of the 3pt hitch. A 1500lbs bush hog hanging 7' of the rear would be better for lifting but I just don't have the room most places I'm working.

 

[LD1]

Yep, distance behind the rear makes a huge difference.

The further back, the less weight required to have the same effect. Or in other words, the same weigh but further back has MORE effect.

My 700# blade is maybe 3' behind the ball eyes, with its load center maybe 30" back. I also have a 1000# barrel of concrete that it's COG is nearly in line with the ball eyes. They have about the same effect. The weight barrel was made for spreading gravel inside a building where I wanted compactness, and not have a wide blade hanging a ways back.

Both the blade and barrel were about perfect on my old L3400. Just not enough for the MX if getting serious about front lifting. At the moment, All I have that I considered ought, is the woods DS96 bushhog @ 1600+

 

[4570Man]

Yea, I recall someone doing it once already, and IIRC it was on a larger 60-70hp tractor? Not sure why we need a proof of concept though. Basic levers and physics. Provided you have at least enough weight to keep the rear axle down.....the rear axle IS the fulcrum. Measure the COG of the weight behind the rear axle centerline.....and measure the front axle to rear (wheelbase.) If you have a wheelbase of 70", and a load center for your weight box that hangs 35" back....simple 2:1. For every 2 pounds added to the ballast box (BEYOND what keeps the rears on the ground) is 1# unloaded from the front axle when lifting max weight.

Wouldn't it be the distance from the rear axle to the balance point on the load?

 

[LD1]

Front loader load? No. Not unless the load is touching the ground.

We aren't talking about how much the FEL load adds to the front axle. THAT would need the balance point of the load to the front axle measurements.

For figuring reduced weight on the front axle....Where the FEL load is at is irrelevant

 

[4570Man]

Here's another small scale experiment. I divided my 'tractor' into 3 equal parts. Although the proportions aren't representative of a real tractor it makes for easy physics. The wheel base is 8.3 inches and the end of both ends of the board is 8.3 inches from the closer axel. I weighed 3 boxes of shotgun shells and surprisingly they were exactly the same at 34.9 oz each. The weight of the front axel is 44.5 oz with a box on each end. The axel weight is 15.5 with 2 boxes on the back.

 

[LD1]

So adding a box at 35 oz on the back, unloaded the front by almost the same amount. Minus a little differences in measuring.

My point proven

 

[rbtjr]

From the OP, thanks to all for your feedback. I have decided that I am going to get a ballast box that will give me the flexibility to add 1200-1800# on the back. The box itself will weigh 1500# when full of dry sand. I can vary that with less sand or almost full with sand and add iron weights I have, or fill the box partly with concrete, etc. Anyway, I appreciate all of the input. I will follow up with a report on how it goes.

 

[rbtjr]

This is a follow-up report from the OP. I bought a OEM Kubota ballast box that weighs 220 # and holds something like 1,250 # of dry sand. I put something like 1,000 # of sand in the box, put four 4" PVS vertical pipes in the four corners of the box to hold chains, tools, my chain saw, etc. I bought a trailer-hitch receiver, had a chain hook and clevis welded onto it, and had the receiver welded onto the back of the box. I had the box strengthened by welding a 1/2" by 4" steel plate inside the box at the same level as the OEM steel plate that strengthens the area where the 3PH pins are. I didn't fill the box entirely with sand so I can add some weights on the top (I have 5 35 # suitcase weights that I could put on top of the sand if I wanted to). So, I ended up with a box that weighs a little over 1,200# and I can increase it to about 1,375 # if I want to. I just finished all of this but the box feels about right. Here are a couple of pics of the finished product:

 

[sdef]

Looks great. Mine weighs 1235# measured with concrete fill and works well for my Kioti DK45 tractor. I can also add a bit more weight if required. I use mine only for weight as I have lots of storage on the tractor.