How much power to run a 5' snow blower

[tessiers]

How much power does it require to run a 5' snow blower. I have a three point mounted snow blower and I would like to mount it to the Front end loader on my tractor. My 2 choices would be to attach a seperate Gas engine, what HP?, or my first choice would be a hydraulic motor powered by the rear backhoe remotes.

Northern Tool has a Dynamic Low Speed, High Torque Hydraulic Motor 11.85 GPM, 2050 PSI
Maximum Displacement (cu. in.): 3.15
Maximum GPM: 11.85
Maximum RPM: 880
Maximum PSI: 2050
Maximum Torque (in. lbs.): 885
1-year limited warranty

My tractor produces 9 gpm at 2050 psi, do I loose speed or torque with the reduced gpm's? I would need to slow it down to about 540 RPM's anyhow.

Is this motor strong enough?

My plan would be to keep the PTO shaft intact and build a 3 point loader mount so that I could still mount it front or rear.

 

[Tig]

Rule of thumb is 5hp per foot, so 25hp. So I guess you could convert 885 in.lbs to hp.
I had a quick look for a conversion and found.
Torque * RPM
--------------- = hp
5252

torque is in ft pounds for the equation so;
885/12 = 73.75 ft lbs

73.75 x 540
------------- = 7.6 hp
5252

At 880 RPM you get about 12.4 hp, but that would running your blower at a speed faster that it was designed to run.
So it sounds like that motor is too small.
You may want to look around to verify that this equation is valid.

 

[gerard]

I run a 5 footer off my rear pto with a 26 hp gear tractor (23 pto hp) which is a bit under the 5hp/foot rule and it works ok but I wouldn't want to go any bigger OR have any less power for that size snowblower.

 

[rimshot]

I've handled a bunch of snow this year with My Kioti CK20 (s) hst22 h.p. and a 60" rear 3ph Meteor blower. It doesn't miss a beat and rarely even bogs down for normal fresh snowfall. Naturally,I don't go full speed through an ice laced snowdrift but I don't feel at all underpowered. I believe this unit has something like 17-18 h.p at the pto.

rimshot

 

[stnbenn]

My John Deere F1145 and 60" Loftness 2 stage uses most of the 28 HP if I am in heavy deep snow and moving more than say 2 mph. I usually throttle it back to about 3/4 speed. It's a diesel so it likes to work....Stan in SW, Mi.

 

[hench861]

my b7200 runs my 60 ford just fine if the snow gets heavy i just put it in low range

 

[rambler]

I'd say 25 hp is a good rule of thumb.

Remember the 30% loss you get with hyd power in there somewhere. hyd is not very efficient, need to oversize by 30% or so. That would be a 30-35 hp hyd setup?

--->Paul

 

[Dmace]

I think its more like 4hp per foot. I run my 60" rear mount blower through ice solid snow banks from the highway trucks and she stills throws the snow over 15ft, 30 with the light fluffy stuff. With the HST, I think my rear PTO is just under 16hp at 540rpms, 21hp at the engine.

 

[bostonrats]

Hello Tessiers,

Did you go forward with the project? I'm on the same trail.

I have a Kubota L185DT. It came with a 60" front snow blower. There is NO WAY that I'm going to pull the loader and frame every fall, install the snowblower, and then pull and replace every spring...and have to go the winter without a bucket.

I made a pin in plow for last winter but for 2008/2009 I am putting a motor on the attachment.

I would love to use a 20 or 22 hp engine but have a 16 hp Kohler TH16S I just got cheap. This figures to 8 HP per 30". I used to have a Homelite snowblower that was 8 hp and it kicked butt. I also had a 12 hp Noma that couldn't toss a flake two feet.

I figure there is quite a bit going on between designs. I figure I'll run the fan at about 500 RPM after reductions. If the motor is too small it won't be too much work later to upgrade, my first job is to pull apart the Kubota snowblower and install new bearings, sprockets, and chain. I'll get these at TSC or Grainger. I'll use industrial flange bearings instead of the cheap ones they come with. After that's all done and painted I'll weld on the motor mounting area where I'll have the original electric clutch and a jackshaft assembly. I'll use the original two belt design between the clutch and snowblower. Not sure yet how I will couple the Kohler in.

In the end, my tractor has 18 hp to run the attachment and it's internal drive. 16 hp can't be too far off the original design specs. Maybe I'll be 20% short, maybe it will be fine. I'm sure it will blow snow, the only questions will be what will happen in wet snow or very deep snow...how slow will I have to go and will it clog. My feeling is that even if I have to creep for some storms it's still way better than plowing.

Best to you.

How much power does it require to run a 5' snow blower. I have a three point mounted snow blower and I would like to mount it to the Front end loader on my tractor. My 2 choices would be to attach a seperate Gas engine, what HP?, or my first choice would be a hydraulic motor powered by the rear backhoe remotes.

Northern Tool has a Dynamic Low Speed, High Torque Hydraulic Motor 11.85 GPM, 2050 PSI
Maximum Displacement (cu. in.): 3.15
Maximum GPM: 11.85
Maximum RPM: 880
Maximum PSI: 2050
Maximum Torque (in. lbs.): 885
1-year limited warranty

My tractor produces 9 gpm at 2050 psi, do I loose speed or torque with the reduced gpm's? I would need to slow it down to about 540 RPM's anyhow.

Is this motor strong enough?

My plan would be to keep the PTO shaft intact and build a 3 point loader mount so that I could still mount it front or rear.

 

[PILOON]

I ran a 4 ft blower front mounted by coupling via chain drive a 16 hp Wisconsin engine.
I used 10" sprocket on engine with 3" on blower.
Fabbed brackets to match FEL pin configuration therby allowing height adjustment.
Was cool setup as I could eat snowbanks from the top down.
Worked very well other than I made contact with a buried old car starter one day which demolished the blower beyond repair.

From there I obtained a 5 ft front blower setup at bargan price but reverted it to rear installation as I wanted a front plow for faster cleanup of lighter snow falls.

I'll go on record to state that in my opinion a front plow with a rear blower is the optimum tractor snow remouval configuration!

Also since I operated both 4' and 5' blowers on a 4' wide tractor I can attest that you absolutely want the blower 1 ft wider than your tire track!

Unerpower is not the big issue that some might think as I have been there.
The solution (say a 20" snow fall) is to raise with the 3 point your blower about 4" and blow for a reasonable distance, return to start point and drop the blower and finish off the lower level previously left behind.
Once a first pass is accomplished the remaining snow fall can be blown by using 1/2 wide passes.

No matter how wide or how much PTO power you have you will have to do this anyway to remouve the snow banks that the city crews pile up in the drive entrance!

Another reason I prefer the rear blower is visibility and manouverability.
You can see down over a rear blower and avoid obstructions while a front blower creates a VERY large blind zone.
Last winter briefly operated an 85 hp NH with a 7' front blower and that up front massive rig could practically hide a Honda civic.
Also the turning was simply nightmare.
Another downside is that that particular tractor required over $4000 of repairs due to the fact that with all that overhanging weight the whole mechanical mess simply broke off the front and took the pump, rad and assorted components with it.
Within 10 operating hours of the repair it was on the way to coming loose again.

Think of fork lifts.
Very manouverable because the steering wheels are opposite of the load.
Same goes for a rear blower!
With a rear blower you can safely work within inches of obstructions while with a front rig you have to stay feet away! (or guess and hope)
I can also attest that it does not take much resistance (merest obstacle) to suddenly cause that front blower to suddenly lurch and smash into the pricy car (or garage door) that you wanted to avoid.

As the NH dealer stated, A tractor is designed to pull farm implements, not to hang a ton off of the front end. (FEL.s are different as they have complete sub frame assy's)

Just my opinion as I have lived just about all configurations.

And PS; last winter here in Quebec we broke all records with multiple heavy snow falls and I maintained my 4 long drives with my 20hp Mitsubishi clutch tractor, 60" rear blower and homemade 60" blade cozy in my homemade HEATED cab with front and rear wipers and AM-FM stereo.
Only failure was my engine block heater! (try changing that at -20 deg!)

Would I change anything? yes, if money was no object I'd have hydrostatic vs clutch, but that's not an option for me.

My plow, my cab, and blower rotation mechanism are all 'DIY' projects.
The next project is power steering! (getting older! LOL!)

 

[schmism]

in the hydraulic world flow rate (gpm) is = to rpm the more flow the faster it spins.

Pressure (2200psi) = force. so just because its turning slowly does not mean it has any less force than if it was spinning fast. its still 2200 psi (there is one caviot to that, in that some/most valves when controlling flow will also affect pressure)

so just because it says it can spin a 880 rpm doesnt mean it wont work fine at 540 with nothing more than not puting max flowrate to it.

 

[bostonrats]

Hello PILOON!

Thanks SO much for your post. It's of huge value to me.

I had not thought about half passes even though I have used a walk behind blower for years. Makes perfect sense.

I thought about a rear blower and front plow also, the front plow is great for pushing back the town snow banks near rocks and hydrants. I just don't want to drive backwards. That and with only 18 hp on my Kubota I'm pushing the limit of the PTO power.

On your chain drive, do you really mean 3" on the engine and 10" on the blower? That would put the fan at 1080 RPM it it was a direct drive to it....with the engine at 3600 RPM.

I'm wondering, do these engines really run at 3600 RPM full throttle? In any case, what speed do I want to run the blower at, I was planning to step down to about 550 RPM, half the speed you seem to have been at. Do you think this extra power but less speed would be better on 60" and 16 hp?

As to this in general, I had a Noma...it was made in Tennessee. It was a piece of junk. I brought it back and got a MTD, that was made in Canada. No offense to Tennessee, but who knows more about snow, the Canadians or folks from Tennessee? The Noma had a shoot hole about 2 1/2" x 3". The snow just could not get out. The MTD has a full size bore and is 100 times the blower.

Thanks again for the expert help.

I ran a 4 ft blower front mounted by coupling via chain drive a 16 hp Wisconsin engine.
I used 10" sprocket on engine with 3" on blower.
Fabbed brackets to match FEL pin configuration therby allowing height adjustment.
Was cool setup as I could eat snowbanks from the top down.
Worked very well other than I made contact with a buried old car starter one day which demolished the blower beyond repair.

From there I obtained a 5 ft front blower setup at bargan price but reverted it to rear installation as I wanted a front plow for faster cleanup of lighter snow falls.

I'll go on record to state that in my opinion a front plow with a rear blower is the optimum tractor snow remouval configuration!

Also since I operated both 4' and 5' blowers on a 4' wide tractor I can attest that you absolutely want the blower 1 ft wider than your tire track!

Unerpower is not the big issue that some might think as I have been there.
The solution (say a 20" snow fall) is to raise with the 3 point your blower about 4" and blow for a reasonable distance, return to start point and drop the blower and finish off the lower level previously left behind.
Once a first pass is accomplished the remaining snow fall can be blown by using 1/2 wide passes.

No matter how wide or how much PTO power you have you will have to do this anyway to remouve the snow banks that the city crews pile up in the drive entrance!

Another reason I prefer the rear blower is visibility and manouverability.
You can see down over a rear blower and avoid obstructions while a front blower creates a VERY large blind zone.
Last winter briefly operated an 85 hp NH with a 7' front blower and that up front massive rig could practically hide a Honda civic.
Also the turning was simply nightmare.
Another downside is that that particular tractor required over $4000 of repairs due to the fact that with all that overhanging weight the whole mechanical mess simply broke off the front and took the pump, rad and assorted components with it.
Within 10 operating hours of the repair it was on the way to coming loose again.

Think of fork lifts.
Very manouverable because the steering wheels are opposite of the load.
Same goes for a rear blower!
With a rear blower you can safely work within inches of obstructions while with a front rig you have to stay feet away! (or guess and hope)
I can also attest that it does not take much resistance (merest obstacle) to suddenly cause that front blower to suddenly lurch and smash into the pricy car (or garage door) that you wanted to avoid.

As the NH dealer stated, A tractor is designed to pull farm implements, not to hang a ton off of the front end. (FEL.s are different as they have complete sub frame assy's)

Just my opinion as I have lived just about all configurations.

And PS; last winter here in Quebec we broke all records with multiple heavy snow falls and I maintained my 4 long drives with my 20hp Mitsubishi clutch tractor, 60" rear blower and homemade 60" blade cozy in my homemade HEATED cab with front and rear wipers and AM-FM stereo.
Only failure was my engine block heater! (try changing that at -20 deg!)

Would I change anything? yes, if money was no object I'd have hydrostatic vs clutch, but that's not an option for me.

My plow, my cab, and blower rotation mechanism are all 'DIY' projects.
The next project is power steering! (getting older! LOL!)

 

[PILOON]

OOPS
Yes 3" on engine driving the blower 10" and a tensioner on the slack side of chain.

Yes it spun blower faster than 500 RPM (wanted it that way) but I figured that I'd control rpm's with throttle but it performed so much better under certain types of snow conditions that I'd often use it wide open throttle.
Also wisconsin motors are 'industrial' and performance curves different from the lawn mower screemers.
The old wicsconsins can chug away circles around and outlast any briggs small engine.
The biggest problem I encountered was that the starter was not powerful enough to spin the engine past compression with the blower coupled and a clutching system was not doable.
Belts would have been easy to clutch with a tensioned idler however I figured that with all that snow around that I'd have slippage plus probably would need double VEE due to HP.
At that the HD chain/sprocket setup worked OK except chain streatched enough that I had to shorten twice and re adjust the tensioner often.

To start the engine I'd engage til top compression and she'd bounce back to bottom of stroke and then I'd re engage the starter at bottom and hold it til over the top and sh'd fire.
Like kinda rock it over the top.
Engine was fresh overhaul hence high compression and there was no other starter options as this was direct bolt on starter/generator setup.

 

[bostonrats]

Hello Piloon!

Interesting that you were running a direct drive. I am lucky enough to have the original electric clutch from my Kubota L322 snowblower attachment. I have not looked at it in months, but as I remember it has a double pully drive system, the face looks like an automotive AC clutch. I did test it and it was pulling in.

I plan to make a jackshaft out of it and drive it via heavy chain from my motor, then with double fan belts to the snowblower.

I just heard back on a motor...it's about 25 hp kawai water cooled *** shaft. I know it's in the 20's, I think 25 hp. I'll check it out on Monday. I do have a good 16 hp Kohler, but more power = more fun!

If it's a good motor and 25 hp then I will plan to step up the fan / drive speed. I'd love to know how many RPM the original design was for, I'm guessing about 500 to 600 RPM. I'd like to go to about 800 if this is the case.

Funny, it's not even summer but I'm haveing a blast getting ready for winter '08. If we have anything like last winter this will be terrrific!

 

[stac]

I have a 16hp. beaver 111 made by satoh so I have been told??
I think it has 13.6hp on the pto
will it run a 5ft, meteor blower
or what size should I be looking for
thanks stac

 

[tessiers]

Well this thread is going on 6 years old, you may get better answers from a new post, however. I think you will be under powered. I run my 5 footer on a 30hp tractor and she works in wet heavy snow. I heard around 4 hp per foot, so that puts you in the 4' range. A lot depends on your snow and conditions. I can blow 12" of light fluffy snow and never even kick in the governor, or sometimes 4" of wet slushy stuff will barely clear the snow banks beside the driveway.

To reply to my original post, the hydraulic system on my tractor was not capable of powering the blower, by the time I got the speed right it couldn't blow anything more than a dusting. Tried a PTO pump and got a lot more flow but the hydraulic motor lacked torque so in the end I run it on the back with the PTO as designed. Time and money pushed that project aside.

 

[Mendonsy]

I have a 16hp. beaver 111 made by satoh so I have been told??
I think it has 13.6hp on the pto
will it run a 5ft, meteor blower
or what size should I be looking for
thanks stac

It's not really so much a question of "Can I run it" as it is "How much snow can I move". If you have the right gearing or a hydrostatic transmission then you can slow down enough to get through anything. If you don't then you should get a narrower machine.
I run a 5' meteor blower on my Kubota B7500HST (21 hp rated at 16 hp PTO output) with no problems at all.

 

[600rider]

I had a Ford 1310 4x4 (19 HP eng. 16.5 HP PTO) and ran a 5' snow blower just fine I had the 12x4 syncromesh transmission in it ran it on the back for a short time then converted it to mount on the front. I ran in low range high gear most of the time. In heavy wet snow you would need to slow down.
I now have a Kubota B7510 4x4 hydro (21 eng. HP and 16 HP PTO) with a 5' blower on front and this set up is "the cats meow!" If your tractor is 13 HP on the PTO you might want to think about a 4' blower. If you have a slow enough gear I think you could get by with the 5' blower but you would want to go at it slowly. The light fluffy snow wont be the problem it is the wet heavy snow the will be the pain in the duppa!

 

[thirdroc17]

Sounds like you guys have more patience than I do. I started with 10HP and a 42" blower, and thought it was good. I moved the same blower to a 16hp tractor, and yee hah, this is better. Then I moved it to a 20HP tractor, and WOWZER, all the better. More horsepower equated to faster ground speed, keeping the blower at full rpm while chucking more snow, which helped the snow go farther. This was all with a single stage blower.

Now I have a 2 stage, 25 engine hp, 19.5 or something PTO, and 50" of width. It would work a whole lot better if I had another 10 HP or so.

Less WILL work. It'll take you longer, and you won't throw the snow quite as far. Now me, I hate winter, I want to get done, and get back inside, so my tractor is underpowered.

 

[600rider]

So far this winter we have had over 85"s of snow and I haven't had to put it in low range yet!!! That being said be careful with ground speed. If you hit something solid going real fast you will bend stuff! I love winter and want more snow! if ya don't believe me look at my license plate!