How much tractor do I need?

[Soundguy]

I'm glad you pointed that out. If i had I'm sure someone would have noticed I only (currently) own 2wd tractors. My last 4wd tractor was sold.. not just because it got as stuck as a 2wd can.. but beacuase of that pto hp issue, vs task at hand... 33hp and 4wd just wouldn't spin the mower I wanted.. just plain out needed more hp.

good post.

soundguy

While that may be the case in a few isolated instances, it's far from being an accurate across the board statement.

There are far too many jobs that a person would do with a tractor that primarily require HP with traction as an absolute minimal consideration. If it takes 60 HP, it wouldn't matter if the 40 hp tractor was TEN wheel drive. You simply don't have the power. That'd be the case with most PTO chores. It's all about having adaquate HP.

If traction is an issue, MFWD will (somewhat) level the playing field. In my mowing business we have 3 MFWD tractors, one 95HP and two 80 HP. They don't perform any different in 4WD OR 2WD with a 15' batwing behind them UNLESS they're in mud or a very steep, slick hillside. Power is power. Traction has ZERO effect of a tractors ability to turn a PTO load.

And, using the same 40 for 60 concept, my 95 HP Deere 6430 WILL NOT replicate the performance of a 135/140 HP 2WD in drawbar pulling. Simply not that extreme of a difference. MFWD has an advantage, but let's be realistic about it.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'd suggest a tractor just at the top end of the CAT I level or the very smallest CAT II models. In other words, 50 HP (+ or -) That will allow you to use implements that aren't overly pricey, nor too light for the job either. MFWD is a great thing, but not an essential fact of life. There are certain things you can do with MFWD that would be limited without it, but still possible. All things being equal, if you can afford MFWD, go for it.

It's POSSIBLE to "get by" with 30 HP, but why? My dad farmed over 300 acres with a 32 hp tractor for most of his life. You just have to allow PLENTY of time.

I farmed just shy of 300 acres for years with 45 to 60 HP 2WD tractors mostly, and for a brief time, with 110HP MFWD as the biggest. It was overkill most of the time, but sure was handy on the occasions when it wasn't!

Bigger power means bigger, sturdier implements are needed OR get used to trashing them in short order.

The lesson I learned over and over was/is, you can adapt to whatever you have. NO TRACTOR WILL EVER BE PERFECT ALL THE TIME. Go for what works the majority of the time. If you are going to err one way or the other SLIGHTLY too big is a LOT better than SLIGHTLY too small. Neither is perfect, but you can't make use of what you don't have. Not enough power is just what it says. Too much power is dealt with as simple as dialling back the throttle just a tick most times.

 

[N80]

MFWD has an advantage, but let's be realistic about it.

I think that 4wd becomes more of an issue the lighter the tractor is, at least in the utility and CUT market. Many of these machines are very light. They do not put a lot of weight on the rear wheels. With that being the case, there is a world of difference between 2wd and 4wd. As mentioned, you won't notice this mowing a flat field. It becomes noticeable with loader work in a big way. The difference is nothing short of extraordinary when pulling a plow or a disk, at least on my machine, in my dirt.

My B-I-L has a little old JD. Don't remember the model, probably form the mid 70's. I'm guessing around 30hp. It is 2wd. It is about the same dimensions as my Kubota L4400. Rear tires about the same size. But compared to my Kubota it is built like a tank. The rear diff and axle housing are massive. The frame is huge. I'd guess it easily weighs 1000 pounds more than mine. Having driven it a fair amount, I think my tractor which has 4wd and more hp would out pull it on firm soil, but probably not by a lot. The point that I'm trying to make....I guess...is that the lighter the tractor the more important the 4wd.

HP comparisons aside, I think that's why so many of us are very pro 4wd. We're talking about little tractors that would not pull too well without it. And then there's the whole added safety benefit on hilly terrain, etc.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I think that 4wd becomes more of an issue the lighter the tractor is, at least in the utility and CUT market. Many of these machines are very light. They do not put a lot of weight on the rear wheels. With that being the case, there is a world of difference between 2wd and 4wd. As mentioned, you won't notice this mowing a flat field. It becomes noticeable with loader work in a big way. The difference is nothing short of extraordinary when pulling a plow or a disk, at least on my machine, in my dirt.

My B-I-L has a little old JD. Don't remember the model, probably form the mid 70's. I'm guessing around 30hp. It is 2wd. It is about the same dimensions as my Kubota L4400. Rear tires about the same size. But compared to my Kubota it is built like a tank. The rear diff and axle housing are massive. The frame is huge. I'd guess it easily weighs 1000 pounds more than mine. Having driven it a fair amount, I think my tractor which has 4wd and more hp would out pull it on firm soil, but probably not by a lot. The point that I'm trying to make....I guess...is that the lighter the tractor the more important the 4wd.

HP comparisons aside, I think that's why so many of us are very pro 4wd. We're talking about little tractors that would not pull too well without it. And then there's the whole added safety benefit on hilly terrain, etc.

You won't notice ANY advantage with MFWD on flat fields OR the steepest of hills when it comes to POWER TO PULL A PTO LOAD. If it DOESN'T have enough guts to turn the load on the PTO, NO AMOUNT of drive wheels will overcome that issue. BTDT, got the t-shirt. And THAT is what my earlier post was directed at. HP is HP....Not ENOUGH HP is not enough HP.

Your experience with a smaller MFWD tractor tells you it does wonders. Mine with bigger MFWD tractors tells me it does wonders there too.....IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS, but NOT as an across the board cure-all for a tractor that is underpowered for the task at hand.

I'm not saying 4WD is OVER-rated, just overhyped in many instances. It simply does not give a tractor 50% performance advantage over a comparable 2wd in all, nor even MOST uses. MFWD does nothing at all to overcome lack of sufficient HP when that is the issue.

 

[patrick_g]

While that may be the case in a few isolated instances, it's far from being an accurate across the board statement.

The cases are not so few and far between when the set of tasks that many of us do so often go down a different path than a commercial mowing operation with large batwings. I understand and agree, to a degree, with your objections as they relate to the HD commercial mowing.

Most of us CUT users who think of our tractors as Swiss Army "transformer toy" "Leatherman multi-tools" on steroids and diesel fuel have a different mix of tasks that ARE NOT sdo often in common with your type of mowing.

CUT's and SCUTS are often traction limited and even with their itsy bitsy engines can often spin their wheels when trying to do much work. A heavy implement on behind like a disk or a box blade weighing over 1000 pounds (empty) full of dirt with the scarifiers engaged tends to cancel out the ability to turn with which 4x4 helps immensely.

If I try to back up much of a hill with my tractor in 2wd I just spin my wheels, even if I have well over 1000 lbs on the 3PH. I 4wd I can back up hills much steeper than in 2wd. As I maneuver a lot in restricted spaces, up and down hills, and sideways on hills (to the edge of my pucker limit) and have done it with 2wd and 4wd, I know which is best for me bya fair margin.

Again, I have no doubt that you understand your business and have accurately characterized it but I don't think your usage is typical for most folks here nor is it directly applicable to the OP's original "universe of discourse."

Said another way. What you said is most likely accurate and true, just not really applicable to my usage and probably not very close to the majority of the rest of us. I don't think many of us operate very exclusively in your niche.

Oh and by the way... I have routinely used TNT to raise my 6 ft brush hog so I could back up to trees I can't drive over. I back up till I start "eating the tree" and then lower the topping lift hydraulically. Once in a while I kill the engine. I cut the stump at a height that prevents it poking a hole in a tire (at least 6-8 inches above ground) leaving behind a shattered tree trunk that looks like a thousand toothpicks. I routinely take down trees up to 4 inches in diameter and once in a while larger. I am on my second set of blades in 6 years. I do this with 39 PTO HP. I am not bragging or complaining, just explaining that I do use a brush hog and not just as a lawn mower.

Pat

 

[Farmwithjunk]

My observations ARE NOT limited to just a commercial mowing operation. 38 years of farming has taught me to think about REALITY rather than hype when it comes to selecting equipment.

Let's say you're starting from scratch to equip the OP's 38 acres. You want to use a round baler that needs 60 to 70 hp MINIMUM, a disc mower that needs 50 to 60, along with the other essentials.

Now, you have a choice. a 40 HP MFWD compact OR a 60 HP 2WD utility tractor.

Which one would you go with? Which one would be nearly useless considering the actual NEEDS? Which one would be able to adapt to the most important jobs and come closest to doing everything?

MFWD is nice. It ISN'T a life-changing event. You CAN get by without it. In more cases than not, you CAN'T get by without enough HP to run your equipment.

 

[patrick_g]

Let's say you're starting from scratch to equip the OP's 38 acres. You want to use a round baler that needs 60 to 70 hp MINIMUM, a disc mower that needs 50 to 60, along with the other essentials.

Now, you have a choice. a 40 HP MFWD compact OR a 60 HP 2WD utility tractor.

I'm sorry, I do not want to get into a peeing contest. I respect your experience and knowledge and have agreed to most of what you say but don't think you are on topic.

Here is the original post...

"I bought a 38 acre property last fall with a 3/4 mile driveway and need to by a tractor to maintain it. It has a nasty switchback that must be plowed in the winter and I'm assuming will require 4wd. It's gravel so I will also need to grade it during the year. Other uses will be rough cutting about 10 acres of fields on occasion and hauling wood. What's the minimum size tractor I need."

Note: no baler, no disk mower. He wants to maintain 3/4 mile drive. He wants to rough cut (read brush hog) about 10 acres (not necessarily in one field.) He wants to occasionally haul wood.

I don't disagree with the answer you deduce from your set of givens. Where I disagree is when you restate the problem so the answer is what you want it to be instead of addressing the guys stated problem.

Again, YOU ARE RIGHT in what you say B U T it is not applicable to the OP's needs.

Of course it is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer (we hope) that there are certain minimum HP requirements to use a given implement for a given task. More HP and you might get done faster in some instances. No one has suggested that the OP should purposely underequip himself in any way, HP or otherwise.

What we are doing (or should be doing IMHO) is exploring his requirements and hopefully recommending cost effective and efficient solutions that will enable him to do what he wants to do. This may differ from much of your decades of valuable experience.

I think he can be quite satisfied with a CUT and think 30HP with 4wd would probably git 'er done just fine. I defer to folks with wider experience in SCUTS and CUTS to offer beneficial suggestions of sizing as well as other matters. I have only experience with my 39 HP HST 4wd on my particular 160 acres doing what I do which includes everything he has mentioned and more.

There may be some conditions of which we are not aware but my take is that if I can do so good on 160 acres with 39 PTO HP he should be able to handle 10 acres of mowing and 3/4 miles of drive and a little wood hauling with 30 HP (maybe less but I'll defer to more experienced "little tractor" people on that.)

I skid logs out of the woods in excess of 2 ft in diameter over 25 ft long, I build and maintain drives, and I brush hog darned heavy brush (over 4 in diameter) and mow a heck of a lot more than 10 acres. I very infrequently feel that I am limited by HP.

Again, I stipulate that you have much more experience than I do but from what you have revealed I think my experience is closer to what the OP has in mind doing.

We can just agree to disagree on the size tractor required to do his chores. I think a 30 HP 4wd can do it all just fine.

Pat

Pat

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm sorry, I do not want to get into a peeing contest. I respect your experience and knowledge and have agreed to most of what you say but don't think you are on topic.

Here is the original post...

"I bought a 38 acre property last fall with a 3/4 mile driveway and need to by a tractor to maintain it. It has a nasty switchback that must be plowed in the winter and I'm assuming will require 4wd. It's gravel so I will also need to grade it during the year. Other uses will be rough cutting about 10 acres of fields on occasion and hauling wood. What's the minimum size tractor I need."

Note: no baler, no disk mower. He wants to maintain 3/4 mile drive. He wants to rough cut (read brush hog) about 10 acres (not necessarily in one field.) He wants to occasionally haul wood.

I don't disagree with the answer you deduce from your set of givens. Where I disagree is when you restate the problem so the answer is what you want it to be instead of addressing the guys stated problem.

Again, YOU ARE RIGHT in what you say B U T it is not applicable to the OP's needs.

Pat

Almost from it's inception, this thread went off of the original posters question. Then "someone" made a bold, albiet totally incorrect statement that a 40 Hp 4Wd was the equal of a 60HP 2wd. Funny, when that was shot full of holes, we now have to "stay on topic".

Point is, either a 40 HP 4Wd or a bigger 2WD would do his job quite adaquately. I cleared 190 acres with a 40 2WD and had no issues. The tractor is STILL here, pictured in my avatar.

Experience is a valuable teacher. It has taught me that given the option of a smaller tractor or a bigger tractor to do the same job for a prolonged period of time, the larger one will generally outlast the smaller one. All things being equal, I'll take a tractor that's big enough to do anything I have to do, and anyting I might have to do in the future rather than limiting myself to what I have at hand now.

A 40 HP tractor, no matter if it's 2WD OR 4WD WILL NOT take the place of a 60 HP tractor in most cases.

 

[Charlesaf3]

while I think farmwithjunk is certainly right, for my use I'd rather have a 40hp 4wd drive than a 60hp 2wd. I simply don't need that pto horsepower, but I frequently need 4wd. Others experience will vary on their own conditions.

I would strongly agree with err bigger rather than smaller, as so much of us who end up buying a bigger tractor after our first tractor demonstrate.

 

[scott_vt]

25-30hp 4x4.. perhaps with loader and an HST tranny.

soundguy

Good Afternoon Chris,
Oh my gosh when did they convert you to HST ???