How much tractor do I need?

[Cherokee140]

When I buy anything like this I really don't worry about "asset depreciation"...I buy things like this with a clear cut plan on what I need the given machine to do. Be it a car, truck, bike, gun, tractor.....

I usually buy once and buy right. Some of the collector guns I own took me over 5 years to find the right one. Others came up sure, and I had a chance to buy and sell and trade...but that is just such a hassle, even with C&R type stuff.

Old machines are fun, but as I get older I don't want to fool with them any longer. Same with the classic cars, I just don't want to mess with them. I would rather just hop in and go for a ride. Sure nothing looks as cool, but it is just sitting there.....be so much more fun to actually drive the thing and have AC, radio, and cup holders.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

When I buy anything like this I really don't worry about "asset depreciation"...I buy things like this with a clear cut plan on what I need the given machine to do. Be it a car, truck, bike, gun, tractor.....

I usually buy once and buy right. Some of the collector guns I own took me over 5 years to find the right one. Others came up sure, and I had a chance to buy and sell and trade...but that is just such a hassle, even with C&R type stuff.

Old machines are fun, but as I get older I don't want to fool with them any longer. Same with the classic cars, I just don't want to mess with them. I would rather just hop in and go for a ride. Sure nothing looks as cool, but it is just sitting there.....be so much more fun to actually drive the thing and have AC, radio, and cup holders.

For sure time changes most all things.

I am finding things that cause me a great deal of physical pain these days are not as much fun to do as once upon a time for example.

 

[Schneeky]

Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee140 View Post
When I buy anything like this I really don't worry about "asset depreciation"...I buy things like this with a clear cut plan on what I need the given machine to do. Be it a car, truck, bike, gun, tractor.....
I usually buy once and buy right. Some of the collector guns I own took me over 5 years to find the right one. Others came up sure, and I had a chance to buy and sell and trade...but that is just such a hassle, even with C&R type stuff.
be so much more fun to actually drive the thing and have AC, radio, and cup holders.

For sure time changes most all things.

I am finding things that cause me a great deal of physical pain these days are not as much fun to do as once upon a time for example.

Cherokee140- Agreed. That's why I'm doing the due diligence here. Asset depreciation becomes a very major factor if the unit I end up choosing ain't packin the gear to get the job done. Too small of a unit will be more frustrating than just keepin my l'il L305.
And options hafta be considered for sure. As Gale alluded to earlier a contractor could maybe nix the bigger need for some of the features I've listed. But if it's at the expense of $4-5k+ I have a hard time chuckin that money out with nothing but cleared woods and mulch to show for it.
That's why I'm still curious to know what kindof spec/capacity should I look at in a tractor to figure out if it will have the intestinal fortitude to make use of a root grapple on 1-3" undergrowth in sandy/loamy soil and still fit in the garage. I'm thinkin the same machine will have no problem shuffling around the brush and logs that pile up on the place in the winter.

Gale- I hear ya on that note. A hernia makes a fella a bit less froggy when it comes to tryin to 'rasslin the heavier stuff I work with.
i.e. green oak rounds, logs, boat motors and the like. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[GManBart]

More people buy too small and wind up trading to something bigger than vice-versa. If you don't have any unusual constraints beyond the garage size (like barn stall width) you're safer off going slightly larger than slightly smaller. Some folks are in the "look at me, I bought the smallest tractor on the planet, and have built a pyramid on my property with it" camp, and some are in the "look at my huge tractor" camp. The best answer is probably somewhere in the middle for most folks.

One note on depreciation for you. Tractors don't suffer nearly the same way cars do, and if you manage to find a Tier III machine, it might hold even more of it's value relative to new. I paid $21,500 for my LS new (fits in normal garages BTW), and I have a pending deal to sell it (after 207hrs) for $19,250. Essentially I paid about $12/hr to own it (minus fuel, and service)....not too bad. I wouldn't be selling it other than to get a machine with a cab (keeping the open station Massey for work in the woods).

 

[Schneeky]

I've noticed that the "newer" tractors seem to be just under new tractors price-wise on the local CL and such. Which with the shorter term/higher interest financing makes a fella's accounting major wife lean t'wards new. That said, you can get a slightly bigger machine for a few $k under the price of a smaller new machine.:confused2:

It'd still really help if I knew what I was looking for. The dealers are all over the place from "Sure, no problem" to "Don't even try it". All while talking about relatively similar units (~30HP 3033LS, Kub L3031, MF1734). One I talked to today said I'd be better off with the backhoe. Showed me a loaded up LS 3033 with loader and backhoe, prepped for the root grapple at ~$21k-ish. But while I may be mistaken, I think I'd have less use for the backhoe than the root grapple after this "big" project. Same guy has a 2006 MF563 with 4-n-1 comin in he said would be around $17.5k. And guaranteed that to be big enough to pull it off.:laughing:

Oy vey. I got a headache from this mess.
Think I'll go get some time in with 'ol Rusty. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[Cherokee140]

You are smart in doing all the research you can. Some people seem to think you need to buy the largest machine made and you will be set....so much more goes into it than that. But if that is your narrow mindset buy the largest machine, then you don't have to worry about it.

 

[Schneeky]

You are smart in doing all the research you can. Some people seem to think you need to buy the largest machine made and you will be set....so much more goes into it than that. But if that is your narrow mindset buy the largest machine, then you don't have to worry about it.

Yeah buddy. If I thought a "B" would do the trick I'd be all over one of those l'il buggers. If it's much bigger than this old L305, outside of the added length for the loader, it'd get cumbersome around here.
Was even wondering if mebbe I could get most of that mess up with the box scrape scarifiers. Haven't had too good of luck with that using this 2WD 305. Even the small roots start it to spinning. Wonder how much difference 4WD would make? Still prolly need the weight, tho'. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[TripleR]

Yeah buddy. If I thought a "B" would do the trick I'd be all over one of those l'il buggers. If it's much bigger than this old L305, outside of the added length for the loader, it'd get cumbersome around here.
Was even wondering if mebbe I could get most of that mess up with the box scrape scarifiers. Haven't had too good of luck with that using this 2WD 305. Even the small roots start it to spinning. Wonder how much difference 4WD would make? Still prolly need the weight, tho'. d:^) Schneeks..

Yes on both counts, in 1986 my father in law bought a Massey Ferguson 375 2WD with cast centers and loaded tires with a FEL. After a month or so of getting stuck and spinning his tires, he traded it back for a 375 4WD and we still use it.

We have several 2WD tractors without loaded tires and about all they are used for is running rotary cutters etc. on relatively flat ground.

 

[Schneeky]

That's about what I figured. And one of the reasons I haven't pursued slappin a FEL on this one. Although there's one close by I could get into cheap that would prolly need a good bit of work. It's been real handy for draggin around the box scrape, landscape rake, and pullin logs and such, tho'. Along with a pile of other little tasks around here I'd rather not fire up the big truck for. d:^) Schneeks.

 

[GManBart]

You are smart in doing all the research you can. Some people seem to think you need to buy the largest machine made and you will be set....so much more goes into it than that. But if that is your narrow mindset buy the largest machine, then you don't have to worry about it.

Who said anything like that?

 

[Schneeky]

Well, either way, Momma did a thorough check on financing and as it stands now we're gonna be better off with the low interest factory financing of a new tractor. The 0% offers are a scam and used tractor financing just ain't happenin at an acceptable rate even with killer credit from what we can tell.

Concerning tractor size, big enough to get the current job done without being too cumbersome on a small property. Testosterone be damned.

So the question remains. What capacity/rating determines the size tractor I need to effectively use a root grapple to pry up undergrowth in this environment? EA sells'em. I see'em on tractors 'rasslin this crap in pics and video. So I'm somewhat sure it's happenin somewhere.:confused2::laughing: d:^) Schneeks..

 

[Cherokee140]

Do some more checking on those 0% offers, on our machine/other stuff it was a much better way to go and would save us over $1000 during the term of the loan. Looking at a very low hour used machine the savings was even more. I am sure each deal is a little different, but if you work the deal correctly you can actually save money with the 0% deals.

 

[Schneeky]

Do some more checking on those 0% offers, on our machine/other stuff it was a much better way to go and would save us over $1000 during the term of the loan. Looking at a very low hour used machine the savings was even more. I am sure each deal is a little different, but if you work the deal correctly you can actually save money with the 0% deals.

We're definitely gonna do just that. Momma used to work in the corporate financial division of Chrysler and is pretty savvy about such things. Definitely not approaching this lightly and making a concerted effort to keep emotion and the "hot running wants" out of it as much as possible.
On the original topic, found some threads about root grapples and what folks were doing with them. Checking their equipment lists it seems that 30HP class for starters and 40-50HP better. Depending on the machine's intestinal fortitude, working environment and storage area. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[newbury]

For sure time changes most all things.

I am finding things that cause me a great deal of physical pain these days are not as much fun to do as once upon a time for example.

A great deal of physical pain was "fun" before?

<snip>
One note on depreciation for you. Tractors don't suffer nearly the same way cars do, and if you manage to find a Tier III machine, it might hold even more of it's value relative to new. I paid $21,500 for my LS new (fits in normal garages BTW), and I have a pending deal to sell it (after 207hrs) for $19,250. Essentially I paid about $12/hr to own it (minus fuel, and service)....not too bad. I wouldn't be selling it other than to get a machine with a cab (keeping the open station Massey for work in the woods).

How true. Over the broad spectrum tractors maintain their value VERY well.

If you don't consider dealers the used market is filled by auctions and individual sales.

Auctions are location dependent and CAN be a great bargain, but you should get the equipment checked out. And then you have to haul it home. Both can add a few $K to get done. And they are also "time" limited. However prices tend to vary all over for basically the same equipment. One week I'll see a 40HP good looking tractor sold for $14,000, a month later the about the same for $8,000.

Individual sales are the same, or worst. You have to be on the constant watch. And prices seem seasonal. I got my B7610 in April of '09 after much searching and phone calls, until I finally found someone that had a GOOD reason to sell at a price that was good. Again these deals are fleeting.

And for both auctions and individual sales you have to LIKE comparing prices etc. I probably spent 100 hours on the web and traveling for each of my tractors. At my former pay rate that would have about been enough to just buy the tractor new. However at my present pay rate (RETIRED!!) I don't really care.

I've noticed that the "newer" tractors seem to be just under new tractors price-wise on the local CL and such. Which with the shorter term/higher interest financing makes a fella's accounting major wife lean t'wards new. That said, you can get a slightly bigger machine for a few $k under the price of a smaller new machine.:confused2:

It'd still really help if I knew what I was looking for. The dealers are all over the place from "Sure, no problem" to "Don't even try it". All while talking about relatively similar units (~30HP 3033LS, Kub L3031, MF1734). One I talked to today said I'd be better off with the backhoe. Showed me a loaded up LS 3033 with loader and backhoe, prepped for the root grapple at ~$21k-ish. But while I may be mistaken, I think I'd have less use for the backhoe than the root grapple after this "big" project. Same guy has a 2006 MF563 with 4-n-1 comin in he said would be around $17.5k. And guaranteed that to be big enough to pull it off.:laughing:

Oy vey. I got a headache from this mess.
Think I'll go get some time in with 'ol Rusty. d:^) Schneeks..

I would immediately scratch the LS dealer off the list. Unless you have a quirk (I do) or constant use a backhoe is VERY expensive.

Well, either way, Momma did a thorough check on financing and as it stands now we're gonna be better off with the low interest factory financing of a new tractor. The 0% offers are a scam and used tractor financing just ain't happenin at an acceptable rate even with killer credit from what we can tell.

Concerning tractor size, big enough to get the current job done without being too cumbersome on a small property. Testosterone be damned.

So the question remains. What capacity/rating determines the size tractor I need to effectively use a root grapple to pry up undergrowth in this environment? EA sells'em. I see'em on tractors 'rasslin this crap in pics and video. So I'm somewhat sure it's happenin somewhere.:confused2::laughing: d:^) Schneeks..

I'm not a financing wizard, and didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express, BUT have you investigated doing a refi on your house? Rates are once again near bottom. I've been refinancing off and on for 40 years and 3.25% for a 15 year is pretty attractive, AND the interest is tax deductible. Plus, then a used tractor is an option.

As far as root grapples go - get the tractor most powerful at the PTO that will fit into your garage. And if you can get it demonstrated better yet. I know Kubotas are recognized for having their capacities "turned down" from the factory so take the mfg specs with a block of salt.

Again, used tractors can be like pearls, hard to find but well worth it when you get one. I figure the $$ I saved on my M4700 paid for the chipper, plow and tiller.

 

[TSO]

As far as root grapples go - get the tractor most powerful at the PTO that will fit into your garage. .

Actually ... No. Get the Tractor with the best loader if you're using a root grapple, AND if that's a more frequent use & concern than PTO implements. Additionally, if you're primary use is loader work, pay attention to the hydraulic flow rates, which of course factors into the speed & efficiency at which your hydraulics operate. Deere & Massey seem to offer the best flow rates for the compacts.

 

[Schneeky]

Newbury- Thanks for the response, looks like it took a bit of time. Far as a re-fi on the house, we just got this place in Oct last year after about a 9 month crazy roller coaster ride. Two houses on one parcel, VA financing. Long story. Momma would flip her friggin wig at the mention of that. And the saddest part of that is that when we closed on this property, we ended up owning free & clear the adjacent property with a nice 3br house on an acre of land valued around $189k for $100. But the friggin financial institutions won't allow us to borrow on it over semantics. Friggin infuriating. They say they'll loan on what we paid for it. Uuuuhh. We can cover that much($100). Then they keep calling it an "investment property" and saying we hafta have at least 20% equity in it. I missed out on the Holiday Inn Express as well, but last I checked, 100% equity was well over that threshold. /rant
Concerning auctions, I'd be comfortable if I was after a boat. But I don't know enough about tractors yet to eyeball it and buy. And the crowd it attracts really dictates if there'll be any deals available. Gave up completely on the estate sales. Too many idiots with more money than sense for the most part.
I don't have a whole lot of use right now for any PTO implements. Mebbe a bush hog one of these days. My garden is all in pots this year and a lot easier to maintain for just us two.
Not sure why you say I should scratch the LS/MF dealer off my list. He's just being a salesman. Can't blame him for that. Specially since I am one as well. Being informed and unemotional is the salesman kryptonite. Not sure about his pricing, but seems more or less in line with what I've seen around here and posted online. They're the ones I bought my current L305 from and they were great.

TSO- Thanks for heads up. What's considered a good flow rate? I have grand plans for 3rd function up front and a set of auxiliaries out back. d:^) Schneeks..

 

[TSO]

Newbury- Thanks for the response, looks like it took a bit of time. Far as a re-fi on the house, we just got this place in Oct last year after about a 9 month crazy roller coaster ride. Two houses on one parcel, VA financing. Long story. Momma would flip her friggin wig at the mention of that. And the saddest part of that is that when we closed on this property, we ended up owning free & clear the adjacent property with a nice 3br house on an acre of land valued around $189k for $100. But the friggin financial institutions won't allow us to borrow on it over semantics. Friggin infuriating. They say they'll loan on what we paid for it. Uuuuhh. We can cover that much($100). Then they keep calling it an "investment property" and saying we hafta have at least 20% equity in it. I missed out on the Holiday Inn Express as well, but last I checked, 100% equity was well over that threshold. /rant
Concerning auctions, I'd be comfortable if I was after a boat. But I don't know enough about tractors yet to eyeball it and buy. And the crowd it attracts really dictates if there'll be any deals available. Gave up completely on the estate sales. Too many idiots with more money than sense for the most part.
I don't have a whole lot of use right now for any PTO implements. Mebbe a bush hog one of these days. My garden is all in pots this year and a lot easier to maintain for just us two.
Not sure why you say I should scratch the LS/MF dealer off my list. He's just being a salesman. Can't blame him for that. Specially since I am one as well. Being informed and unemotional is the salesman kryptonite. Not sure about his pricing, but seems more or less in line with what I've seen around here and posted online. They're the ones I bought my current L305 from and they were great.

TSO- Thanks for heads up. What's considered a good flow rate? I have grand plans for 3rd function up front and a set of auxiliaries out back. d:^) Schneeks..

Well, a "good" flow rate is 20-30 gpm, but that's on skid steers & industrial equipment.

Compact tractors are much less. The implement pump on my Massey is something like 11.7 I think. Deere is either just above or below that, can't remember off hand. The average for the segment seems to be around 10. I think the tier 4 LS/NH Boomer tractors are down in the 8 range for some reason.

It's not the end-all be-all, but it is something to consider.

 

[Schneeky]

Got some seat time in on a 3016 Mahindra hydro and shuttle today. Along with an LS G3033 hydro. The Mahindra just seemed to fit me better and looked a little less "utilitarian". Plus they had the wayyy better financing at virtually the same price point.
Setting things up to pull the trigger first of the week. Any reason not to? Thanks d:^) Schneeks.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

NEW MAHINDRA 3016 HYDROSTATIC 4-WHEEL DRIVE TRACTOR

Nice looking tractor. With a PTO HP of 21 should drive a 4' bush hog in some big stuff. I could adjust to that HST I expect.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
Not sure why you say I should scratch the LS/MF dealer off my list. He's just being a salesman. Can't blame him for that. Specially since I am one as well. Being informed and unemotional is the salesman kryptonite. Not sure about his pricing, but seems more or less in line with what I've seen around here and posted online. They're the ones I bought my current L305 from and they were great.<snip>

If he advised a backhoe and you are a neophyte tractor buyer, with 1 under your belt, he shouldn't have. Backhoes are EXPENSIVE. And for

Anyways, what I've got is a few acres of overgrown woods to clear and some dirt to push around. Dirt around here is pretty sandy and easy to work with, but I have a TON of those 1-3" saplings and sheets of vines to 'rassle.

on 5 acres it's definitely overkill.

Most tractor dealers I've dealt with are not like the typical "used car salesman". The dealer I bought my backhoe from tried to talk me out of it. But I've 400 acres plus to play on, not 5.

In post #7 you can see my tractor with the pallet forks on. I used them like a poor man's grapple to pile up limbs while clearing a 30 year overgrown half acre lot in Northern Virginia. Just angle them down a bit, drive into the brambles, vines, small trees, curl back, rip up, pile repeat. The pallet forks cost me abut $200, and I needed pallet forks to lift pallets. I still plan on getting a grapple, but first I have to get QA plates and learn to weld, so I can modify my bucket. But that looks like it will cost about $2K all told, a far cry from $200.