How often to grease?

JSharp · Oct 12, 2007

AlanB said:
Well, if it is a myth, then it is a myth that my cousin (by marriage) believes as well. So, why would that be relevant? He is the Quality control engineer and testing branch supervisor for INA / FAG bearings in Germany.

That said, when he took me on the tour of the testing and R & D department, we discussed it at length, and like so many other things the real answer is "it depends"

One of the particular questions I had for him, and we discussed in detail, is our practice of taking the seals off the bearings on our dirt bikes, and packing the bearing plumb full of grease and then popping the seals back in.

We do this, in the thought that it is better to have it plumb full of grease, then to have the customary amount of void or airspace in the bearings.

He then brought up the sliding of the rollers, explained that the type bearings we were using were "stock" or "catalouge" bearings made to fit a wide range of uses and for our particular application it was probably a wise choice. We were probably more likely to experience bearing failure from dirt, crud and water then from the bearing sliding instead of smoothly rolling.

He then went on to point out that those bearings were originally intended for high speed electric motor applications where that small, precisely measured amount of grease was determined to give them their best life for their average expected use.

Then he took me into the room where they were currently running tests to determine optimum lubes, rates, etc. etc. of running bearing's to failure.

So, is it a myth, not in my opinion. Does someone take something out of context and apply it where it should not have, happens often, and as I often say at work, why is it so hard to get out good information while bad information can spread like wildfire.

In the FWIW category, I doubt seriously you could overlube any bearings found on my ag or construction equipment.

I am in the lube it till it comes out, wipe off gross excess yet leave some to form a sheild on open bearings / pivot pins, and on closed or sealed area's try and put a very small amount in till you believe it has recieved grease and not so much as to break the seal.

Of course the answer is "it depends." I agree 100% that the context and details are everything.

I wasn't arguing that it wasn't possible to get ball or roller bearings to "slide" or "skid" or that the wrong quantity or type of lubricant wouldn't lead to premature bearing failure, I only take exception to the "too slippery to roll" statement along with the others we've seen describing how the bearing might have only a small contact point instead of the full ball or roller etc.

Out of curiosity you might ask your brother in law if he's ever seen a case where they used a higher friction lubricant, or added something like a friction modifier to a lubricant to increase a bearings life by making the lube less "slippery." That, as opposed to using a different viscosity or quantity of lube.

Everything I've seen or read says there are lots of ways to make bearing fail, but a lubricant with too little friction isn't one of them.

Too much or too little lube, especially in high speed bearings will generate heat and shorten their life.

A lube to viscous or too thin will shorten their life. A too viscous lube or too much might even lead to the rollers sliding or skidding especially with rapid increases in load or speed since the drag of the lubricant has to be overcome by the ball or roller.

And there are lots of other ways to shorten bearing life, like rapid load increases or impacts. We have some high speed fans here that weigh less than an ounce and have an average life of 50K-80K hours. When they fail it's the bearings that are the problem, not anything electrical. But drop them once from a height of a couple of feet and the bearing life will be under 3 months.

In any case, I don't think many of those things apply to the equipment we use and I agree with you as to how it should be greased.

And sure, all of this is somewhat pedantic but accepting things like the "too slippery" statement as truth will often mask the real failure mode. Pretty soon you're thinking heavier things drop faster than light ones because that's what happened the last time you threw a pool ball and a feather out the window...

DieselPower · Oct 12, 2007

How much and how often to grease is not a simple answer. It depends on the type of bearing, application, speed, heat, type of grease, sealed or not sealed, etc... On high speed bearings over greasing can lead to bearing failure faster than lack of lubrication. In high speed applications over greasing can cause bearings to over heat and fail within the same day. Now considering that there really are not any high speed electric motor type bearings on your standard tractor the risk of over greasing is very low. You could possibly damage a seal if you were to grease to much but even then the chances are small.

Sealed but greasable type bearings need far less lubrication than open non-sealed bearings and bushings. FEL and BH pins and bushings are a good example. No seals and extremely dirty conditions in this situation would call for more frequent lubrication. The higher frequency of lubrication will help to purge out any contamination that has entered the pins and bushings. On areas that are exposed to high contamination leaving a little grease on the outside can actually be a good thing (note I did not say globs or a huge mass of grease). The layer of grease on the outside helps by actually forming another barrier to contamination entry.

To slippery a lubricant, doubtful. The only instance I have seen case study's on about real world problems with a lubricant that was to slippery was in diesel engines and the use of synthetic oil. Some "rare" cases of cam gaulling have been documented and associated with some types of synthetic base stock. Nothing to get all concerned over, synthetic will not destroy your engine. It's the only thing I can think of that related to a lubricant that was to slippery.

Now you can have a grease that is to tacky. In high speed motor bearings a grease that is to cohesive will tend to form a wave front in front of the roller bearings thereby starving the rollers of lubricant. Once again though you won't find this type of bearing on tractors.

Probably the best advice is use common sense. If your pounding your tractor to death then it will need to be lubricated more often. Light slow speed use will require less frequent relubing.

California · Oct 12, 2007

I had an old British motorcycle (53 BSA), a low rpm torquy thumper. It clattered like mad. The rods and I think mains were needle bearings. I swear you could hear every needle at low rpm.

I've always wondered why they chose needles for the rod bearings. I would have thought the concentrated spot forces would be enormous every time the cylinder fired, and a plain bearing would transfer that stress to the oil film better. But it worked fine.

ILUVOZ · Jan 14, 2014

Hi Guys.. I am novice when it comes to my ( New to me ) 1984 Ford 4110 Tractor.. I have no idea where to grease her nor how often I should..
Yes I know that makes me dumb .. but with a little help from this wonderful braintrust here.. I hope to learn enough to not make too many mistakes.
I don't know where to look for the greasse nipples.. and I don't know how to attach a grease gun to them. BUT .. I did buy a grease gun and some grease..!! so maybe I am only half as dumb as I think I am ? I use a Slasher ( bought New) at the moment and not a lot else as I am broker than a three dollar watch in a collectors throw away bin!
Thanks

Bob

dave1949 · Jan 14, 2014

Now is a good time to get very familiar with your new tractor.

Anything that moves needs grease usually. The steering linkage, clutch and brake linkage, front axle pivot, things like that. I'm not familiar with that model.

Look under, around, over and through for grease zerks or places that could use a dab of grease or oil. You just push the grease gun nozzle onto the zerk, then pump grease, pull it off and go to the next one. The grease gun nozzle may have a sliding tube section that you can pull back on to allow getting it on zerks that are tight fits.

Danny C · Jan 14, 2014

1-2 pumps per 10 hours of work/day is sufficient. Pumping good grease out is a waste and is messy. Furthermore, when you work pins or bearing, more grease will squeeze out when you work it making more of a mess.

Soundguy · Jan 14, 2014

if it is new to you and you are using a different type of grease than the PO.. I'd grease all the joints and push out the old grease till you see your new grease. once there.. then yeah. a couple pumps per days work.