RaT - I do the edmunds.com thing and talk invoice only to the salesman. My last 3 trucks I bought new and I typically keep one 8-10 yrs. I go to edmunds.com, price what I want, print out the invoice pricing, then go to the dealer. Typically pay $100-$200 over invoice, then deduct any rebates/incentives if available. Bought a new F250 SD last year and before I could start to bargain, the fleet salesman said he would sell me anything on the lot for invoice. The salesman then pulled out a list of little known rebates and went down the list asking if I qualified for any of them. I ended up with $2500 worth of rebates off invoice. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif When you buy new, ask the salesman to show you the rebate list. At the time, they were offering $1500 general dealer rebate, $500 rebate to small business owners, $500 rebate if you had totaled your old Ford /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif, and many others we did not qualify for. Sometimes there are also manufacturer to dealer incentives that the dealer may or may not offer to the customer. We got an extra $2000 off my wifes car when I ask if he would pass the dealer incentive to us if we bought. Don't hurt to ask. I think it was on Edmunds where I found out about the dealer incentive at the time.