How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed.

   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #21  
one big valve cover.

That would be a QSB 5.9L. That engine per Cummins does not require the use of a DCA treatment product. If you use engine coolant treated with DCA or equivalent chemistry (Nalcool, Pencool, etc.) on other engines, there is nothing wrong about using the same coolant for your QSB.
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #22  
I have a 2002 5.9 with one long valve cover. I never have read anything about additives for mine. DO I need it?:confused:
hugs, Brandi
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #23  
i think you have the same 24 valve motor as i do. at work i'll check on the volvo bottles of antifreeze we maybe 100 plus d-4's and d-6' per year along with some cats and mans. i'll be curious as to what the bottle says i know they recommend using only their coolant. funny the yanmars we used to use only require dex cool that you can buy anywhere.
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #24  
[Gets out the pickaxe and the steam shovel] to those who like to complain about thread age bugger off i like this one and am reviving it for a reason.

Per Shakin's question I just recently found out the importance of sca and what cavitation realy means.
TikiWiki : Cavitation - The Complete Guide

That is a nice article to explain it I am glad i found this info now rather then later when it was time to drop $ on a mistake. its an eye opener for those of us who dont know diesel
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #25  
I looked up that link on cavitation. It is fairly accurate and uses language that most of us find easy to read and follow. I do take issue with the recommendation on how SCA to use. Quoting that article..."The ratio of SCAs to coolant is one pint per 4 gallons of coolant. SCAs come in one pint bottles. As said before you must use green low silicate coolant" That amount of DCA4 or Ford VC-8 (FW16) is too little. It will result in precharging the system to 1.25 units per gallon (Fleetguard method). When low levels of precharge are used, you are operating on the bottom edge with no margin for consumption of the additve. Getting below 1.0 units per gallon is NOT desirable. Below 0.8 units per gallon results in inadequate oxide coating that allows cavitation bubbles to penetrate the microscopic film depth (microns thick). Better to treat any cooling system on engines that require use of supplemental coolant additives by using 3 pints DCA4 (5 units per pint) per 8 gallons coolant resulting in 1.9 units per gallon. If you desire more there are no issues unless you exceed 3.0 units per gallon by a wide margin. If you use Pencool 2000 in pints the concentration is 4 units per pint. Increase the treat rate by an addition pint. That would be 4 pints in 8 gallons coolant when making your own.

Back when that was written, fully formulated coolants were not as prevalent as they are now. In fact, it is getting harder to find any low silicate HD antifreeze without a precharge. Use a fully formulated coolant (contains SCA precharge) and mix with demineralized water (distilled or reverse osmosis treated) or better still, buy a premixed fully formulated coolant meeing ASTM D6210 standards. Use that for your initial fill and subsequent refill of low coolant levels. The main cause for cavititaion failures in engines that have the correct coolant to start with is the use of non-compliant coolants not containing a precharge of SCA. That results in dilution of the SCA level to the point that cavitation will break through the remaining too thin barrier oxide film.


One other point in that page link about cavitation is that the statement to use a green low silicate antifreeze. It does not have to be green although many equate ghe green dyed coolants as being in need of a precharge. There are precharged coolants on the market that are green-dyed. If you are looking for that specific recommendation, look for statements to the effect that the antifreeze concentrate meets ASTM D4985 (low silicate, needing a precharge).

Do all diesel engines require SCA? If your tractor or engine manufacturer requires the use of fully formulated coolants containing an SCA or recommends the use of SCA addition as a service item, then it likely does have cavitation issues. Many small diesel tractor engines do not have issues with cavitation thus not requiring use of SCA. It will not be an issue if you do choose to use such coolants and additives. SCA chemicals provide for other corrosion protection than cavitation protection. Fully formulated coolants will generally have some form of an anti-scaling inhibitor to protect against formation of hard water scale in the cylinder head water passages. LD automotive coolants typically do not have such protection.
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #26  
In further examination of this website, TikiWiki : Cavitation - The Complete Guide I find incorrect information. Allow me to explain how I can determine this. If you read my bio, I am a field service engineer with Cummins (Fleetguard business unit). I work with coolant and chemicals as well as our filter products. My specific area of support is to the end user and OEM customers on issues of product application engineering, maintenance training, failure analysis and maintenance consulting.

Statements made on that web site about compatibility of SCA are at best, uninformed. There are no issues with mixing supplemental coolant additives In the standard SCA products there are two categories; nitrite and nitrite/molybdate. Sorry for the chemistry lesson but when you deal with coolants you are specifically involved in chemistry. Regardless of brand, all SCA products do mix and have no issues with chemical reactions. Statements made by manufacturers about compatibility issues of SCA and engine coolants are made by the Marketing and Sales divisions to promote their products and discourage (scare) you from mixing or leaving them. Their hope is that making changes in your coolant product usage will be so painful that you will not change.

For the record, Fleetguard DCA4 IS Ford FW16 later VC8. Napa SCA will be either of the two types listed above. You could mix DCA4 (ntirite/molybdate) with Napa or Penray Pencool or even Baldwin BTE additives. While DCA4 has two cavitation protectors, these others use nitrite only. No issues with mixing. Fleetguard offers the same nitrite only SCA, DCA2. Same story for engine coolants. Manufacturers of OAT coolants (organic acid inhibitors) started out by making dire warnings about mixing. Later after customer backlash, they toned down their rhetoric on that topic. Unfortunately, those early statements are still being passed around as 'fact'. "Thanks, Internet!"

In reading further, that website assumes that products like DCA4 came about because they are better than earlier SCA products like DCA2 or Pencool, Nalcool additves. The short answer is that due to the sales promotion of the earlier SCA like Nalcool those additives were over used. That was due to the promotion that if "some is good, more is better". True, up to a point. In the matter of DCA2, Nalcool, Pnecool and similar nitrite-only additives, these products continue to provide solid protection but the user should be cautioned about over concentration. This last issue resulted in heavy corrosion of lead solder in copper radiators. DCA4 and similar products reduced the solder corrosion aspect of over-use by substituting some of the ntirite with the sodium molybdate additive. It gave better cavitation protection while actually using less additives and greatly reduced solder corrosion issues. Baldwin, Donaldson, Fram and Wix/Napa offer DCA4-like SCA.
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #27  
I looked up that link on cavitation. It is fairly accurate and uses language that most of us find easy to read and follow. I do take issue with the recommendation on how SCA to use. Quoting that article..."The ratio of SCAs to coolant is one pint per 4 gallons of coolant. SCAs come in one pint bottles. As said before you must use green low silicate coolant" That amount of DCA4 or Ford VC-8 (FW16) is too little. It will result in precharging the system to 1.25 units per gallon (Fleetguard method). When low levels of precharge are used, you are operating on the bottom edge with no margin for consumption of the additve. Getting below 1.0 units per gallon is NOT desirable. Below 0.8 units per gallon results in inadequate oxide coating that allows cavitation bubbles to penetrate the microscopic film depth (microns thick). Better to treat any cooling system on engines that require use of supplemental coolant additives by using 3 pints DCA4 (5 units per pint) per 8 gallons coolant resulting in 1.9 units per gallon. If you desire more there are no issues unless you exceed 3.0 units per gallon by a wide margin. If you use Pencool 2000 in pints the concentration is 4 units per pint. Increase the treat rate by an addition pint. That would be 4 pints in 8 gallons coolant when making your own.

Back when that was written, fully formulated coolants were not as prevalent as they are now. In fact, it is getting harder to find any low silicate HD antifreeze without a precharge. Use a fully formulated coolant (contains SCA precharge) and mix with demineralized water (distilled or reverse osmosis treated) or better still, buy a premixed fully formulated coolant meeing ASTM D6210 standards. Use that for your initial fill and subsequent refill of low coolant levels. The main cause for cavititaion failures in engines that have the correct coolant to start with is the use of non-compliant coolants not containing a precharge of SCA. That results in dilution of the SCA level to the point that cavitation will break through the remaining too thin barrier oxide film.


One other point in that page link about cavitation is that the statement to use a green low silicate antifreeze. It does not have to be green although many equate ghe green dyed coolants as being in need of a precharge. There are precharged coolants on the market that are green-dyed. If you are looking for that specific recommendation, look for statements to the effect that the antifreeze concentrate meets ASTM D4985 (low silicate, needing a precharge).

Do all diesel engines require SCA? If your tractor or engine manufacturer requires the use of fully formulated coolants containing an SCA or recommends the use of SCA addition as a service item, then it likely does have cavitation issues. Many small diesel tractor engines do not have issues with cavitation thus not requiring use of SCA. It will not be an issue if you do choose to use such coolants and additives. SCA chemicals provide for other corrosion protection than cavitation protection. Fully formulated coolants will generally have some form of an anti-scaling inhibitor to protect against formation of hard water scale in the cylinder head water passages. LD automotive coolants typically do not have such protection.


I would like to say thank you for sharing some of your knowledge on the subject. I will re-read the label on my NAPA branded fleetguard SCA and verifying I did not mess up to badly when I dosed my Texaco green coolant. I now believe I added to little although it is not required per the manufacturer.

Cheers :drink:
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #28  
ok...im so confused after reading these posts, my minds going to implode (or cavatate).

I have 3 diesel engines
1. 1994 dodge Cummings, 5.9 L straight 6
2. 2004 ford power-stroke, 6.0 L V8
3. 2011 Kioti dk45se

do any or do all of these require an additive? I dint see any mention of it in the literature that came with them. The dodge engine has run strong all these years (wish i could say the same for the rest of the truck).
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #29  
The easiest thing to do is go a Caterpillar Dealer or a place that sells Cat Parts and get some Cat DEAC coolant. Go to cat.com an look up this # PEHP9554-03 (Brochure) on the product. The old Cat part # was 8C3684. it change part #, but if you ask for the old number they can change it over. It is purple in color and has the SCA in the mix. Change it like the green stuff and you shouldn't need to add anymore SCA between changes. I wouldn't put any Extended Life Coolant (ELC) in anything that didn't come from the factory with it in.
 
   / How to calculate the amount of SCA/DCA needed. #30  
Your 2004 ford should have Motorcraft premium Gold coolant from the factory. Mine did. That's a fully formulated extended life coolant, and doesn't require an SCA pre-charge. Checkout the link which talks about testing the coolant and adding SCA booster.
www.fleet.ford.com/pdfs/Diesel_Operating_Maintenance_and_Care_Tips.pdf

I believe the Dodge requires cavitation protection, but the type of coolant you used determines if an additive is needed. If you used a heavy duty fully formulated product, then no, an additive isn't needed.

I don't know anything about the Kioti.

Mike
 

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