How to fire my contractor?

stumpfield · Dec 1, 2006

You probably read my thread about "contractor disappeared". It's amazing what you can find out with just a phone call.... Anyway, I called the "only" sand/gravel/concrete company in the area. I ask to speak to the manager to inquire about cost of concrete, sand, gravel and etc because I'm about to start my barn and house building project. She said $125.75 per yard. I gave her my address and told her my property is 4 miles off the highway on a the single lane dirt road. Access could be difficult.... She said $125.75 per yard and that's the regular price. I ask her to double check to make sure she could deliver concrete to my properties.
She said: "I'm absolutely sure...I've sent a driver out to your property to check out the road...about 2 weeks ago, j**** came by to get a quote on a concrete job. I sent a driver to check out the road and I told him it's Ok. We'll deliver at no extra charge...." I ask what about standby time charges? She replied: "Standby time is $1.50/min but I don't enticipate any because you are not too far from the plant and we give you certain amount of time each trip. Unless something really screw up then you will be responsible of the standby time charges...."

So, my contractor lied. $141 per yard and $3 per min standby time charges.... He knew what's going on 2 weeks ago. He didn't pour the concrete as scheduled and avoided my phone calls. Left me hanging and throw my schedule off.... Re-appeared and gave me a story about the concrete price and delivery problems. He wants to add about $1100 in extra charges + $200 extra labor to his original bid. He really believe that I'm stupid or what? He probably didn't think I could find out with just one phone call away.

Anyway, what's the proper way to fire him? Just tell him don't come back?

dmccarty · Dec 1, 2006

Since he gave you the option for him to get his forms and he would walk away no charge, I would call him up and tell him to come and get them by some time that is convienient for you.

Move on with the project.

Later,
Dan

deere755 · Dec 1, 2006

I would agree with dmccarty. He has given you an open opportunity to fire him. I would set a deadline for him to get the forms and move on with the project. Good luck

Jstpssng · Dec 1, 2006

deere755 said:
I would agree with dmccarty. He has given you an open opportunity to fire him. I would set a deadline for him to get the forms and move on with the project. Good luck

Agreed. However call me paranoid, (recently bitten, twice shy) but I would reinforce that with a registered letter.

CurlyDave · Dec 1, 2006

Write him a letter and send it registered or certified mail, with a return receipt. Send him a second copy by ordinary mail and get a "receipt for mailing". The second one will be delivered even if he decides to play games and not sign for the first one.

Point out in the letter that he agreed to get his forms back and not charge you anything.

You need to have a written record of this so he is not going to cause any trouble in the future and it devolves into a "who said what" fight.

I would take advantage of the down time to make certain that the ground under where the slab will go is properly prepared -- you only get one chance at this and if it is wrong you will be regretting it for decades.

3RRL · Dec 1, 2006

It wouldn't hurt to make a call to the local Better Business Bureau and ask them what proper procedure would be. Also to whatever governing agency that controls the ethical behavior of contractors in your area. They might help you out?

jpm · Dec 1, 2006

luckly you caught this early in the project so your not in a real bind. As for firing him these are good suggustions. telling him !@## will made you feel better But is not the right way because he will talk to other contractors and tell them you are a !!!!!! good luck on the project

Kubotasrking · Dec 1, 2006

It may behoove you to pay $100 for an attorney for 30 minutes to draft the letter for you. The investment up front may prevent huge expenses down the road.

DocHeb · Dec 1, 2006

Video tape him every moment he is on your property removing the forms - you never know what type of "accident" might happen.

Dusty · Dec 1, 2006

I know that in the other post, I said to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that was before the rest of the facts have come out. I would also take KubotaKing's advise and have an attorney involved with sending the letter. Also pin him down to a date and time to get the forms. If he doesn't pick them up at that date and time, have the attorney advise him that you will be charging storage that must be paid prior to them being removed at a later date. One trick that I learned a long time ago is to get a uniformed police officer on the site when he is there. They will keep any confrontation from starting and are considered a independent witness if there is any court action. Usually you have to pay a few hours show up time to the local department, but it is well worth the cost if you have any further problems.
Also, keep in mind that you signed a contract with him, and he can still enforce the contract if you don't have anything in writing from him saying that there are going to be additional costs. If you fire him without consulting an attorney first, you are asking for problems later on if he counters that he was ready and willing to finish the job, but you fired him without cause. You already know that he is a liar, but you don't know how vicious he can get if you fire him. Cover all your bases beforehand. I'll bet that he has a few more tricks up his sleeve that you just haven't learned about yet.
Dusty

EddieWalker · Dec 2, 2006

stumpfied,

You did good calling the concrete plant. Now you know what's what and are more knowledgable. It shouldn't be too hard to find a contractor to replace the one you had. Unfortunately, he's proven himself to be dishonest and unreliable. This leads me to believe he's also dilusional and capable of anything. People like that invent things in there heads and then believe them.

I've also found that most of the time they never do as they say and you could spend months waiting on him to get his stuff. If it was me, I'd give him one chance to get his stuff. I doubt he'd show up, but if he does, fine, he's gone and all is good. If not, do it yourself. Take all his materials and put them at your front gate, then call him and tell him that all his stuff is waiting on him.

My experience with guys like that is they never come back, but there's always the exception. Let his stuff sit there awhile, then make it magically disapear when you get tired of seeing it. Just because he doesn't return your calls doesn't mean he doesn't listen to them. He does, he just avoids them.

Do you have a written contract? Did he do any work that has some value? Did he do any dirt work or dig out any footings?

If he did and you feel he's entitled to some payment, than you could always fire him that way. Tell him you're unable to continue with the building at this time and that his services were no longer needed. Pay for his labor and let him walk away.

Usualy things like this turn into a good thing. You now have the oportunity to go over your plans and make any changes you've come up with. You also have the oportunity to find a better contractor with the knowlege that you've learned. You don't tell the contractor that you know what the concrete company said, and let them tell you. If they are honest, this is a good way to find out. If they lie about concrete prices, you'll know it right away.

Good luck,
Eddie

randy41 · Dec 2, 2006

there have been some ugly contractor stories on this board lately including this one.

gemini5362 · Dec 3, 2006

I disagree with eddie on one point if you put his stuff by the gate and it disapears he might get it then say it was stolen and try to make you pay for it or it might get stolen and he might try to make you liable for it. I agree with the other posters send him a registered letter. If her plays games and refuses to sign for it the post office will give you a copy of the times they tried to deliver it. along with the registered letter send him a copy through regular first class mail. If he is a contractor he probably has a fax machine send him a fax, if you use your own fax then print the message that shows the pages sent and confirmation they were recieved. If he has email send him an email also. I would give him a date and time you will be available for him to come and get his material. If you do hire an attorney disregard all my previous advice. The attorney as an officer of the court just has to send him a letter. The attorney can fill out an afadavit of service and that will hold up in any court action. On the day and time that he is supposed to be there call the local police and tell them he is coming and you are worried that he might cause problems where I live they will come out for free just to keep the peace. If at all possible get him to sign a release that you do not owe him any compensation for work he has performed or for work that was in the original contract that did not get performed. In any event in the letter to him make sure to include that he has breached his original contract with you by increasing the price that you agreed to and by abondoning the job site without explanation. I also strongly urge you to pay an attorney to write the letter for you and then follow his advice from there.

3RRL · Dec 3, 2006

Tom,
I repeat to also use the contractors board to resolve this dispute. As I understand it, they are in existence solely (almost) for this purpose. If he is a contractor, they will pull his license until he makes good. If he is not licensed, they will take him to court on your behalf. Loretta just went through this for her Whittier home.
I would not use him for anything again nor use his forms. He is a liar and tried to screw you from what I've read. The Board will deal with him for that. They can advise you how to have him remove his forms too. Just be sure they know the details when you file with them.

EddieWalker · Dec 3, 2006

How much stuff does he have there? Is it just the forms? What are they worth? I'm guessing they are worth a few hundred bucks at the very most. If they are stolen from the front and he wants to spend $1,000 to get a few hundred dollars worth of wood, then pay him if he hires a lawyer and goes through the process.

I don't think this is worth hiring a lawyer or even putting allot of thought into. Tell him to come get his stuff, if he doesn't show up, remove them your self. Your not responsible for storing his stuff.

Put it aside for him, put it at your front gate, keep it or burn it. If he wants it, let him come get it.

Eddie

RFB · Dec 3, 2006

Do's:

A. Spend the small dollars on an attorney generated letter that:

1. Formally ends any and all agreements or stipulations regarding work on your property.

2. Demands removal of any equipment or materials from your property with a suspense date after which they will be disposed of.

3. Requires notification and appointment to retrieve said property.

4. Expressly prohibits any entry onto your property without your physical presence AND permission.

B. Contact the contractors board and open a case regarding this issue.

C. Contact local law enforcement (with the time and date of the equipment retrieval appointment that he establishes, and request "civil standby" services.

Don'ts:

A. Entertain any further personal contact without unimpeachable independent witnesses.

B. Speak to him (even with the witnesses) if you are upset, angry, excited or otherwise emotionally disadvantaged. Speak as if every one of your words will be heard by a jury; they may.

C. Dispose of his property willy-nilly even though that is what he deserves.

Eddie's statement of "he's also dilusional and capable of anything. People like that invent things in there heads and then believe them." is right on the money.
Play this like "defensive driving". Drive as if the other driver is out to get you.

stumpfield · Dec 4, 2006

EddieWalker said:
stumpfied,
Do you have a written contract? Did he do any work that has some value? Did he do any dirt work or dig out any footings?

If he did and you feel he's entitled to some payment, than you could always fire him that way. Tell him you're unable to continue with the building at this time and that his services were no longer needed. Pay for his labor and let him walk away.

Eddie

Thanks Eddie,
Yes we have a written contract. All communications were in writting via fax. No he didn't do any dirt work. We dug the footings ourselves and have everything ready for him to form and pour the slab according to the specs on the approved building plan. This suppose to be a 1 week job. Now it has been over a month. First, he complained about certain portion of the footing was not deep enough. He said it' 2-4 inches off and wanted $200 extra labor. I'm pretty sure I measured it and checked everything. I'm 300 miles away and can't go to meet him and verify it in person. It will cost me that much just to make a trip up there. I wanted the job done asap so, I gave him the benefit of doubt and ok'ed the $200 extra charge.
Then he disappeared for 2 weeks and try to pull this stunt about the sand, concrete price and delivery problem. This will increase the contracted price for another $1000. He never returned my calls. Instead, he sent me a 2-page fax on all these proposed changes. I guess he didn't expect me to check that out with the concrete company. I finally got to speak with him over the phone on these bogus extra charges. He now realize that I know what was really going on. He said there was some mis-communications between him and the concrete company. He didn't get along with one of the employee at the concrete company and this guy was messing with him. He's sorry and wanted to finish the job with no other changes and done by next week.

Anyway, the wife wants us to be nice guys and offer to buy him out. We want to retire and live there. It's a small community I'm sure we will run into him again in the future on something not construction related. So, instead of having him come back to remove the forms and dragging this further...we offer to buy him out on this job. He said he spent a day on correcting the footing depth and putting up the forms (6 2x6 16', 4 2x6 20' and stakes for a 36'x48' slab). To me, that's more like a 2-hour job of nailing the 2x6's to the stakes. I'm not sure if it's even level and plumb. No steel or any hardware installed as indicated on the plan. So, we offer him $500 for his time and the lumber (his receipt shows about $150). His effort paid him $350 and we learned a lesson. I hope our action didn't encourage him to do this again to someone else ....

EddieWalker · Dec 4, 2006

It's sad, but usualy the best course of action to just pay him to go away.

I've done jobs, and turned down jobs to fix what others have done. Soemtimes it's beyond me to fix some of the things I've seen, but usually I walk away from a job because the person hiring me doesn't want it done right, just cheap. In the jobs I accept, it's always the same story. They didn't know any better and were relying on the contractor to do it right. Even when they thought it was wrong, they always have a reason that makes sense to them for so long, but eventually they realize they are being taken advantage of and have to get rid of him.

Sometimes I expect the previous contractor to show up, especially when they leave tools and materials behind, but so far, none ever have.

I didn't realize you were so far away from your land and can fully appreciate not wanting a local nut case running around with a self created grudge against you. Pay him, keep him happy, and never deal with him again. You just never know what he'll do some night after drinking a few too many with his buddies and working himself up into a rage over what he feels you did to him. Of course, I could be way off base and probably am, but it does happen and they are out there.

Just be sure to get his signature for reciept of payment. That alone might be worth thousands of dollars to you sometime in the future.

Good luck,
Eddie

gemini5362 · Dec 4, 2006

I agree with eddie for 500.00 if he will sign a receipt that you do not owe him any money pay him and be glad you got away from him.

If he does not accept the 500 I believe RFB offered the best advice. I would follow it to the letter

Dusty · Dec 4, 2006

Call the local building department and find out if he is a competent contractor that knows how to pour concrete. Call the concrete company and find out if he is a regular customer. If the answer to both questions is yes, then let him finish the job and you will be happy in the end. If you are 300 miles away, then you will need to start over again looking for someone else. OK.. there was a hick up, but don't let it ruin the meal. Get over it and get the work done.
Dusty