How to get started reloading ammunition

   / How to get started reloading ammunition #41  
it reasonable to believe that I can reload/handload .223 for less than 20 cents per round?

In a word, No. If you are looking for something to be below steel cased Wolf or equivalent, No you are not going to find it. At best you might be able to match it. Provided you can recover your brass.. You mentioned your CETME rifle was rough on brass. That does not bode well for your savings. As far as .223 ammo, you will need jacketed bullets for sure not lead. Your gas block would clog up in a hurry with 3000 fps lead. Some of the slower rifle rounds can be lead, or lead with a gas check, but in general you will want factory jacketed bullets especially if you are going to feed them into a gas operated firearm. Lead is fine in pistol rounds, due to the much slower velocities. Here you can save even more by molding your own bullets. You will always have to buy primers and powders, but pistol bullets can be all your own. Rifle bullets for a 30-30 or something like that can also be lead with a small copper cup called a gas check on the base. Even faster bullets can also be done this way, but not for semi-auto's. Hope this helps.

James K0UA
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #42  
here's my view.

first.

steel is generally considered non reloadable. yes.. the mild steel would PROBABLY resize fine.. though it will be a hard resize and will be extra wear on your die set. It will be a cold day after the apocalypse has been here a while before I will result to reloading steel.

Now.. here's how you figure cost. don't think about the cost of the press and the dies and associated equipment. just tally your brass, powder, projectiles and primers. then keep track of loads. each time you reload those cartridges.. that brass price goes down. if you start with your own once fired commercial brass saved from shooting.. or range pickup.. your brass cost is nill. if you buy new bagged brass.. figure on 25$ per 50 rifle cartridges.

Now.. t=for straightwall brass.. you won't need to trim it. for bottleneck brass.. you will need to trim.

I reccomend getting a lyman case gauge and an rcbs trim pro manual trimmer.

also hit harbor freight and get a set of digital calipers that measure 3 digits and inch( usually on sale for 9$ )

For a press.. you can start with anything from a 25$ lee classic or a spendy but tough rcbs rock chucker. those are single stage.

i reccomend a single stage to start with.. they are cheap enough that later if you want to go progressive.. you can and use the old press for just decapping.

next. I reccomend getting a starter kit.

either of the 2 rcbs kits at walmart are a good deal.. so is the lee starter kit for 115$

all 3 come with a hand primer tool and a ballance beam scale. the lee scale is real basic.. but DOES work.

You will find lee dies cost about 20-30$ for a 2 die rifle or 3 die pistol set.. and rcbs dies cost about 28-35 for the 2-3 die sets.

you will want a tumbler to clean brass with. harbor freight has some good rooler tumblers and vibro tumblers.

frankford arsenal has a smal vibe tumbler and media seperator for about 60$ usually.

for media.. walmart wheat unscented kitty litter and white rice are cheap and HARD to beat.

primers.. you will end up paying 4-5 cents each . 5 cents each if you purchase by the tray of 100, more like 3.8 to 4.2 cents each if you buy by the brick of 1000.

All different brands. tula, wold, winchester, remington, cci.

some don't like cci.. etc.. I like em fine. i don't use rem.. too spendy, hard to find except for 209 shotgun primers.

I like winchester primers the most and use them about 95% of the time. tula and wold and sellier and bellot are the cheapest and always have gone bang for me.

I personally like the rcbs hand primer better than lee.. but they all prime brass.

both the lee kit and the big rcbs kit come with a relaod manual. lee or speer int he rcbs.

i reccomend getting a relaod manual from every manufacturer. lee, hornady, speer, sierra, and of course.. lyman # 49.

at least have a manual for each projectile maker you use. IE.. hornady bullets? have a hornady manual.

check the data to find out what powders to keep on hand before buying powders.

the large the bulk you buy projectiles in.. the cheaper they are.. projectiles will be the bulk of your relaod cost, past brass.

for many of the pistol calibers you can shoot pre sized lead. or even plated lead like berry's bullets. you can push them past cast lead speeds.. mif fmj speeds.

I generally just load jacketed rounds.

occasionally you can get good deals on reclaomed ( pulled ) projectiles. wait till you get more experience before going there as you have to figure bulet weight and size. some may be magnetic too.. milsurp.. etc.

you will want a kinetic hammer to take apart dummy rounds and fix mistakes.

always make a dummy round with no primer or charge to test COAL and fittment to chamber and magazine.

pick out a good lube system either the spray/spritz or roll on pad.. stick to it. many / most pistol calibers use dies with a carbite or TIN sizer that do not need lube.. almost ALL if not all, bottlenecks will require case lube.

onthe bottlenecks you trim. trim em all to the trim to length and then set your crimp dies so you get uniform crimp. don't overcrimp.. works the brass and shortens the life. many dies come with roll crimp. some taper and you can get factory collet crimp with lee.. extra die set.

unless you do bulk projectile buys.. you won't get the huge savings.

for instance.. 4 cent primer.. and projectiles. if you buy by the 100.. 223 may well cost you 28 cents a round!. lets say you have free brass, and buy powder by the pound for 25-30$ a pound.


lets say you use varget.. and load at the bottom. 25 grains... your powder may cost you 10 cents, then the 4 cent primer.. then the 28 cent projectile... that's 42 cents. That assumes you saved your brass from the last commercial ammo you shot up and kept it.

now. that number can go down 2 ways. buy powder in 8# kegs, and buy projectiles in lots of 500 or 1000.. not 50-100. the projectile cost will be significan;y less. your load cost may drop to around 29 each. that also assumes grabbing a brick of primers. and getting for 2.5-3c each depending.

on them pistol calibers.. presized and lubed ready to load cast lead or berry's in bulk will be the cheapest way to go...
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #43  
That's a nice setup for the price. Just add dies.

I bought a Hornady "Lock N Load press "kit"

Image1674.jpg


Today it is $250 at Wideners.
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition
  • Thread Starter
#44  
Hmmm....given that information about .223, I may wait a bit to get into the rifle reloading side of it. I haven't ever looked at pricing on brass and bullets vs. finished rounds, because I have always naturally gravitated to shooting the low-end Russian stuff, and generally I've been very pleased.

This Hornady "Lock N Load press kit" - is this a good starter set for reloading pistol rounds?
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #45  
Hmmm....given that information about .223, I may wait a bit to get into the rifle reloading side of it. I haven't ever looked at pricing on brass and bullets vs. finished rounds, because I have always naturally gravitated to shooting the low-end Russian stuff, and generally I've been very pleased.

This Hornady "Lock N Load press kit" - is this a good starter set for reloading pistol rounds?

Hornady also has a good reputation, and good customer service. Are you looking at the progressive auto press LNL or the single stage?
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #46  
I believe you are headed for the single stage, and the Hornady would probably be the one I would buy if I wanted a single stage, but one last attempt to "turn you to the dark side" and spend more of your money.. Watch this young lady on You tube.:D

Dillon Precision Presents the RL550B - YouTube

James K0UA
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #47  
For buying reloading components, the best place to go is Grafs. Very well organized website and look carefully at the bullets that they sell as "Grafs brand", they are usually blemished batches from very good manufacturers. There may only be a handful of bullets in the batch that are blemished when you buy 500 and usually you will be able to spot them and separate them out.

With the recent run on ammo and then a couple of weeks later on all reloading supplies, one of the items that has been hard to find has been primers. Always look for primers and powder in your local stores, since you pay a $27 hazmat fee when you order primers or powder online and have it shipped. Because of the hazmat shipping, the shipment of your order is also usually delayed and ends up going UPS ground. If your local store comes up empty of powder and primers (mine were in a 30-40 mile radius) then for powder and primers specifically go to powder valley inc. There you have to make a bulk purchase to spread the hazmat fee over several items. So for instance you can buy 5000 primers and 2 8lb jugs of powder that you need. Perhaps some Blackhorn 209 at the same time if you shoot a muzzle loader. Of course to nuy primers and powder in bulk, you either need to know what your load will be or have high confidence that it is going to work out for you since an 8lb jug of powder is typically running $142 and up and 5000 primers will be about $135+.

There are certain powders that are very versatile, which work for a wide range of applications. For instance, Hodgdon Varget is an excellent powder for 223, 308, and 30-06 cartridges. The suitability of a powder depends of course on the burn rate of the powder compared to the velocity of the load you are after. So if you are looking for 4000fps 22-250 loads, your powders will not be very versatile because they will need to be fast. But if shooting heavier bullets at milder speeds, one will find that generally the powders are useable across many cartridges. I do not have any magnum calibers, but they tend to favor the slower burning powders since they have big cartridges that contain a lot of powder and generally shoot down a longer barrel.

I got lucky and bought some Hodgdon H100V powder and so far it has worked great in my 243 Ackley Improved barrel with 95 and 105gr Berger VLD's. It is also one of the fastest powders listed for the maximum weight 6.5mm bullets for my 6.5x284, but I cannot tell you success stories since I am still waiting on my barrel...

For cartridges that contain a fair amount of powder, stick type powders are generally recommended since they are reported to be less temperature sensitive, whereas flake powders are known to develop higher pressure in hot conditions than when cold. This again may not be an issue at 100 yards on a deer size target, but it all counts when shooting out 400+ yards. The main thing which 1 poster has alluded to previously, is that stick powders do not feed accurately from a typical powder measure. For rifle rounds I have given up and set the powder measure to dispense about 0.5grain under the target load, dump it in the pan and weight it on the scale and then trickle in the balance until within 1/10th of a grain by hand. I hand weighed all the charges for my 500 round 308 batch and it still only took 2 evenings after work to do. I will probably be shooting that ammo for several years and the effort would have been worth it.

Something to keep in mind as a precision shooter is that it makes no sense pre-loading a huge stockpile of ammo. High performance rifles will typically wear out the throat of the barrel within 1000 to 1500 rounds. Basically the barrel will go once it has seen X lb of powder/flame. Some like the 222Rem and 308 will go a good long time (well over 5000 rounds) without substantial accuracy degradation. Others, like hot magnum calibers or overbore cartridges like the 6.5x284 or 243 Ackley may only go 1200 rounds before accuracy goes for a dive. During the 1200 rounds, one would have to constantly be adjusting the seating depth to "chase" the receding throat or else accuracy would drop off even faster.

I am not a competition shooter so have no need to shoot rapid strings of fire during a wind lull, so it may take me a good long time to wear out my 6.5x284, but I certainly take the life expectancy of my equipment into account when selecting a weapon to practice technique with. So for me, I will use the 223 to practice for up to my 243AI and the 308 or 8x57 to practice for heavier calibers, since both of these shooting a 175 or 200gr bullet respectively have a decent amount of recoil and require more attention to technique to get good repeatability than a low recoil/faster/flatter shooting caliber. There is more chance that the rifle will move under recoil before the bullet has left the muzzle.

If you buy good quality brass (lapua) and anneal after every 4 firings and adjust your sizing die to only size the absolute minimum needed, you should easily get 12 or more firings on the same brass. If you load maximum (or over maximum) charges, full length resize and bump the shoulder back every cycle, have rifle chambers at the maximum end of the specification, do not anneal, then you might have split cases after as few as 4 firings. Lack of annealing will also play havoc on neck tension to hold the bullet (brass work hardens) and that in turn will cause a bunch of fliers and lots of frustration.

I know that guys that go out and buy a semi auto rifle quickly figure out that one can burn through a lot of ammo really fast. But these are really not the ideal platforms for reloading. They typically require loose chambers for reliable function and are pretty brutal in the way they handle brass. The magazines, feed ramps, extractor, ejector and sometimes dust cover all leave their individual marks on the shell, not to mention the pavement, when it finally lands 6-15ft from the shooting position... The Cetme/H&K/PTR91 style rifles were generally made to fire steel cased ammo and certainly not made for leaving behind reloadable brass. Of all the weapons I have seen, they certainly come last for being reload friendly but that was never a consideration for their original military application.

I too had an AR style rifle and quickly tired of the way it treated my brass. The one I had was chambered in 7.62x39 and would not feed ammo very reliably anyway, so I got rid of it and went with an SKS and now shoot steel cased Golden tiger ammo through that and like it much better. For precision I have my bolt guns with their high quality ammo which of course stays in pristine condition as long as I do my part.

1 last thing to consider is to google "stainless tumbling media" instead of using corn cob/rice type media in a vibratory tumbler. I find the stainless tumbling media to give very good results and I don't run it nearly as long as the manufacturer says. 1 hour starting with a soak in *** water and detergent is more than enough for me and it cleans the primer pockets, flash holes, everything. The only thing to beware of is to not tumble different sizes of cases that can fit into each other. That can turn into a mess.

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   / How to get started reloading ammunition #48  
I sure cant argue with the looks of your brass with that stainless media.. I can make corn cob media tumbled brass look like that too, but more like 8 hours!.. I did a little quick math and looking around for bullets and powder, which I havent bought any for a while. and it looks like you can assemble good lead loads for about a dime each, maybe less if you would "bulk up". Of course you could invest in some casting equipment and lower that quite a bit. But the price of powder, bullets and primers have all doubled in recent years. Of course the price of factory ammo has well shall we say "went up a bit:)).

James K0UA
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #49  
There are ways to save money when starting out reloading if money is tight. Somethings can wait till later to buy. For instance, when I started reloading the kids were little and our income wasn't much I'd put all my brass in an old pillow case and tie the end shut then throw them in the washing machine. After it was done, I'd rinse them in a strainer and lay them out to dry before beginning the reloading process. The brass cleaned up nicely with no powder residue. A couple years later I was able to get a RCBS Vibratory Case cleaner. They have gotten ridiculous in price for an out-of-balance electric motor now.
 
   / How to get started reloading ammunition #50  
One way to save on components would be a group buy. Three or four of us get together once or twice a year and, add up all of our "like" items, then start shopping around for the best deal. Several times we've run across bulk .223 bullets that we all load for and we'll buy 5 or 10K, then split the costs evenly, that really cuts down on the per bullet costs, plus it sets you up so it'll be a pretty good while before you have to restock. Same with primers and powders, since they only apply the hazmat charges to a shipment, not to each size of primer you order.
 

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