How To Sell Tractors To Lazy Farmers

[EhM8]

No, I am not talking about the two speed powershift button. Nothing wrong with that. It is the power clutch button that they've just added with it, which allows you through the synchromesh gears by using a button clutch instead of a foot clutch. I am not sure, but the button clutch wouldn't let you change gears under power, so it wouldn't be the same as a powershift.

I am mostly familiar with JD and CNH transmissions. The push button shift you refer to is found on CNH's 24x24 transmission. It actually is great if one needs to downshift on tillage work. Say you are discing or plowing and encounter a steep hill, by downshifting with the button, the tractor gets about a 20% decrease in speed and 18% increase in torque to make it up the hill. Get to the top of the hill and upshift with the button. No stopping to clutch and shift gears. In a full days work this couple happen a lot. For most heavy work, often a single downshift is enough to get you through the tough spots. To me it works like the torque amplifier of the older tractors.

JDs quad shift and CNHs semipowershift lets one change gears in a single range without clutching by moving a shift button. (four gear shifts)

Full powershift is nicer and lets you change through all gears without clutching.

JDs IVT (infinitely variable transmission) lets you move a lever seemlessly throughout without clutching. Touch the brake and the tractor stops without clutching. Release the brake and starts moving again. IVT is a fantastic transmission from what I have heard but $$$$.

On top of the semipowershift, full powershift and IVT you can get autoshift which will let the tractor shift up and down in field or road modes depending on engine speed and how fast you want to go. Now you don't have to do any button shifting.

 

[EhM8]

Again, I am not talking about powrshift, Dynashift or IVT. I am talking about this power clutch button they've added to synchromesh transmissions. If it doesn't provide clutchless shifting - it is a button that disengages the clutch - then it is a pretty superfulous and untidy option instead of providing a true powershifting option.

As the owner of a new MF 5455 with the Dyna 4 tranny, I can tell you not having to clutch is a bigger asset than you would think. And yes in a full day of making round bales hundreds of clutches would not be unusual. Clutch/shiift to speed up as a windrow thins, clutch/shift to slow down as it gets thicker, clutch/shift to downshift for a hill, clutch when you have to stop to wrap a bale,..... get the picture. Try if for a 8+ hour day, then decide if its being lazy or not.

 

[EhM8]

The two speed button sounds alright to me, because you can shift under power, but if you wanted full clutchless shifting, wouldn't you go for the semi-powershift, powershift or dynashift tractors. In Oz we have the German made 5020 Deeres that are the equivalent to the JXU T5000s, these have the powerquad transmissions, so if you wanted clutchless shifting, wouldn't you go for these transmissions over a dicky electric clutch button? The JXU has the same transmission and engine as the Maxxums, so they could easily fit them with semi-powershift. That maybe would make them more expensive, but at least then, they would have an option for those who wanted a sub-100hp tractor with powershift.

CNH makes semipowershift in the Maxxum line and full powershift in the Puma line. Both are bigger than the 5000 series and comparable to JDs 6000 and 7000 series. The smallest Maxxum and Puma is around 110-115 engine hp.

Try the JXU with the 2 speed button, it might be ok. However the powershift gives more flexibilty.

 

[Timber]

lazy farmer is an Oxymoron

 

[EhM8]

That is fair enough, but did you opt for a button clutch or did you buy a tractor with a powershift tranny? If I wanted clutchless shifting, I'd go with powershift. I am just having a go at the manufacturers, because the powerclutch button seems a lame excuse for not providing a powershift tranny in those model tractors.

You also might want to consider that some people may have RSI in their right arms and having to operate all functions on the tractor with their right arm might be painful too... in that case, a tractor that had foot gears might be good.

I do not consider myself to be lazy, however, I have authoritis in my left knee and depressing the clutch "hundreds of times" a day will leave me unable to walk when I get off my tractor. I traded tractors and no longer need to depress the clutch and I can operate all day long, get off the tractor and walk with no problems. Don't classify everyone as a "lazy farmer".

 

[radman1]

EhM8

A power clutch button? That is a new one for me. Does one have to hold the button in, shift and then release? It does seem like a lame idea or just another gimmick.

 

[EhM8]

I assume that is what you do. The button would have to be positioned very well for you to do that operation, and considering on the JXU there are two other buttons on the same little nob. I asked the Case dealer whether it allowed powershifting without dropping revs, and he was uncertain because he hadn't see the new JXUs yet. He said it was mainly for transport. The Valtra A series also has it apparently, so they are sticking it on models that don't have a powershift option, it seems... which is pretty lame alternative, considering it doesn't seem to offer any advantage over the floor clutch. Synchromesh and 2 speed powershift are fine, but adding the electric clutch isn't going to win me over if I decide I want something like the four speed powershift transmissions on the competitors tractors. They might as well advertise that their tractors come with a vanity mirror and a toilet roll holder - thought the latter might be handy if the electric clutch button gives trouble.

EhM8

A power clutch button? That is a new one for me. Does one have to hold the button in, shift and then release? It does seem like a lame idea or just another gimmick.

 

[chh]

The new 12 x 12 power shuttle includes a clutch-free, electro-hydraulic power shuttle for smooth direction change and faster cycle times, ideal for loader work.
The 24 x 24 transmission includes a two-speed powershift in each gear and also offers 24 matching reverse speeds. The clutch-free, electro-hydraulic power shuttle provides smooth direction changes and faster cycle times to make it ideal for loader work. The shuttle lever is located on the left side of the steering column for fingertip control, while allowing you to operate the loader or implement with your right hand. MFD models feature a higher top transport speed of 22 mph (35 kph) depending on tire size.

This is the quote from the CaseIH website on that tranny.




I think you need to research a little more. The clutch pedal on the Dyna 4 is a pedal on an electric switch. You can do all the shifting with the hand knob if you wish. The pedal is only required to start the tractor. It sounds like the Case is the same principle. It is my understanding that many of the JD, Kubota, and ??? trannys work the same way. It is all electro hydraulic to shift any way you go. It is my understanding that Valtra was/is a leader in trans technology that is part of the reason AGCO bought them.(no partnership AGCO owns them. If you don't believe it look up the AGCO website.)

 

[EhM8]

No, I think I have to persist in saying that the Case IH transmission in the JXU isn't anything like the Dynashift transmission in the Masseys. Maybe the foot pedal is electrically actuated, I don't know, but the power clutch button is for shifting through synchromesh gears still using the synchromesh gear leaver... as far as I know. Maybe I am wrong and you can shift under full power with this button.

From what I can gather, however, you have two buttons to change between your two speed powershift (high and low for each gear), and then you have the power clutch button to actuate the clutch while you change through your syncheo gears in the same way that you change through the synchro gears using the foot pedal. So shifting through gears would be 1st gear low, 1st gear high - then clutch to shift to second gear in which you can select high or low.... the button doesn't negate the clutching between the non-powershiftable gears. The two speed power**** splits the 12 gears into high and low ratios. That is where you get the extra 12 gears, but the power clutch means that you are still using the clutch between 12 of the gears, unlike the Dynashift transmission where you don't need to clutch through the whole 16 gears, or the semi-powershift in the Maxxums where you only have to clutch between gears 8 and 9.

The JXU 85 JXU 95 JXU 105 (and the T5000s) have only been recently released, and the websites aren't updated for these models yet. Basically, the new models have been intercooled and the engine now operates at lower rpm, but there still isn't a true clutchless transmission in these tractors in the same category with those provided by MF 5400 or the German JD 5020s, and that is why I think the addition of the powerclutch button is a rather impotent selling point and misleading when they claim it provides clutchless shifting. Maybe I should have titled this 'How To Sell Tractors To Gullible Farmers.'

The power-reverser doesn't have anything to do with the power clutch button, unless I am messed up completely about these tractors. And what sense would it be to add a button on the gear lever for the powershuttle when the powershuttle was clutchless before the introduction of the power clutch anyway... just to make things more complicated? The Power Shuttle negates the need for clutching for forward, reverse and neutral... the power clutch button is for clutching while going up or down through gears, which you would be using your foot for normally on these transmissions regardless whether you have the power shuttle or not.... the Power Clutch button isn't changing that, it is just duplicating the foot pedal... as far as I understand anyway. The Valtra A series have the same thing. I thought AGCO bought Valtra for the Sisu engines, and the transmission technology used in the Masseys came from the Fendt.

The new 12 x 12 power shuttle includes a clutch-free, electro-hydraulic power shuttle for smooth direction change and faster cycle times, ideal for loader work.
The 24 x 24 transmission includes a two-speed powershift in each gear and also offers 24 matching reverse speeds. The clutch-free, electro-hydraulic power shuttle provides smooth direction changes and faster cycle times to make it ideal for loader work. The shuttle lever is located on the left side of the steering column for fingertip control, while allowing you to operate the loader or implement with your right hand. MFD models feature a higher top transport speed of 22 mph (35 kph) depending on tire size.

This is the quote from the CaseIH website on that tranny.




I think you need to research a little more. The clutch pedal on the Dyna 4 is a pedal on an electric switch. You can do all the shifting with the hand knob if you wish. The pedal is only required to start the tractor. It sounds like the Case is the same principle. It is my understanding that many of the JD, Kubota, and ??? trannys work the same way. It is all electro hydraulic to shift any way you go. It is my understanding that Valtra was/is a leader in trans technology that is part of the reason AGCO bought them.(no partnership AGCO owns them. If you don't believe it look up the AGCO website.)

 

[EhM8]

Here is an image of what I think must be the new JXU interior. The little yellow button on top of the gear lever must be the 'power clutch' button. The other two buttons are the high and low powershift buttons.

http://www.agrics.cz/obrazky/h8u105001_c-23ce2e.jpg