How would a TBL like a Kubota B21 handle hauling dirt up and down hills

[Gittyup]

Auto return was a optional feature on the previous B20 Series - it is NOT on the B21 Series. The feature as I understand allows the swing to return to center with a slight touch - it used switches and electronically controlled valves.

The auto return on the B20 was prone to fail, and Kubota provided a "repair kit" to effectively disable this function.

I agree on not filling the tires unless you use it w/o any counter balance (BH, 3PT Implement). Mine is snow blade in winter, and BH in summer and the occasional York rake use.

Carl

My friend must have a B20 then. My bad. The OP asked for tractors to consider so here is the direction I went because I wanted an effective TLB: Kioti CK25 with loaded R4's. Weight is king for digging. So is hydraulic flow. This is why I went Kioti (and the price). My CK25 weighs about 6200 with loader and backhoe, and has almost 13 gpm of hydraulic flow. It stays planted in place when digging and is very stable when loading. I've used my friends B20, both as a loader and a backhoe. And he has played around with my CK25. We both say the CK25 far out performs the B20. I think it's because of weight. The B20 does not have loaded tires and is pretty light. It's backhoe tosses the tractor around pretty good. I also keep telling him he needs to sharpen his teeth (but he says it hurts too much ).

I'm puzzled as to why Kubota would not recommend loaded tires for backhoe work on the B21. Maybe it would put too much strain on the hoe or hoe mounts if all the energy were transferred to the backhoe??? Anyway, there are many good tractor options to me the OP's needs. Me, I'm a firm believer in weight for digger.

I agree on the Ag tires. I hate my R4's. They look good, and they are tough, but they are terrible in the mud.

 

[troutsqueezer]

Nice write up and great restoration, Dennis! But on my PC I had trouble with the alternating dark background reading all of the text.

It sounds like the white background did not load in for you for some reason. Maybe reloading the page would have corrected that.

 

[troutsqueezer]

Thanks for that article Trout Squezer. Is the 3 point hitch standard equiptment on the B21?

What is some advice when buying a used B21. (or any used tractor)

How would you test drive it? and check it out

Any things to particularly look out for.

I guess if the tach/ hour meter cables break as Trout Squezer mentions in his article, and it has not got repaired right away you cant necessarily trust the hour reading on the meter?

If I cant find a b21 what would be the next best thing in a Kubota or other manufacturer.

Thanks,
BB

You can never be 100% sure some one has not disconnected or repaired the hour meter, that's for sure.

There many things one can look for when buying used. There are lots of threads on here that address that very topic. Just a few:
You want to see grease around the zerks and seeping out of the joints. Tractors work on grease and they take plenty of it.
Ask to see any records of maintenance.
Look for markings - usually in white- around the engine that dates certain milestones in maintenance, like fluid replacements, etc.
Check the loader for obvious misalignment.
If the hours are low, check the rubber on the pedals to see how worn they are. If the rubber is barely there, might have more hours than indicated.
Drive it around, making sure all the pedals and levers do what they are supposed to.
The loader should lift the machine when you curl it.
Check for drips underneath.
Make sure four wheel drive engages.
Check the plastic around the edges of the dash panel. If it has what look like screw driver gouge marks around it, someone has had reason to access the hour meter or tach.

Mine doesn't have the backhoe so not sure what to check there.

The three point arms may or may not come with it. Better if they do since they are not cheap. There are places to store them on the tractor when not being used.

 

[boggen]

You can never be 100% sure some one has not disconnected or repaired the hour meter, that's for sure.

There many things one can look for when buying used. There are lots of threads on here that address that very topic. Just a few:
You want to see grease around the zerks and seeping out of the joints. Tractors work on grease and they take plenty of it.
Ask to see any records of maintenance.
Look for markings - usually in white- around the engine that dates certain milestones in maintenance, like fluid replacements, etc.
Check the loader for obvious misalignment.
If the hours are low, check the rubber on the pedals to see how worn they are. If the rubber is barely there, might have more hours than indicated.
Drive it around, making sure all the pedals and levers do what they are supposed to.
The loader should lift the machine when you curl it.
Check for drips underneath.
Make sure four wheel drive engages.
Check the plastic around the edges of the dash panel. If it has what look like screw driver gouge marks around it, someone has had reason to access the hour meter or tach.

Mine doesn't have the backhoe so not sure what to check there.

The three point arms may or may not come with it. Better if they do since they are not cheap. There are places to store them on the tractor when not being used.

for backhoe, it is pin wear, and how loose the backhoe is. swing it right, swing it left, quickly and let go, and see if the hoe keeps on going (pins and holes worn out), check the transporting lock to see if it is there and works. or was it torn off, warm up the tractor, run it for 10 to 15 minutes to warm everything up, then work the backhoe some to get it warmed up. and right before you turn machine off, fully extend backhoe and kept it raised off the ground some. then shut the machine down. wait an hour and come back to see if how is on the ground or not.

double check out riggers (legs of a backhoe on the sides) to see how loose they are or if they are bent... ((someone leaving them down and trying to drive off, and bending the out riggers))

double check all the hoses for cuts and worn out spots.

 

[dfkrug]

Weight is king for digging. So is hydraulic flow. This is why I went Kioti (and the price). My CK25
weighs about 6200 with loader and backhoe, and has almost 13 gpm of hydraulic flow. It stays planted in place when digging
and is very stable when loading. I've used my friends B20, both as a loader and a backhoe. And he has played around with my
CK25. We both say the CK25 far out performs the B20. I think it's because of weight. .

The B21 is a 2000# tractor (naked) and puts out 8.5 GPM at 2000psi. The DaeDong M27 (CK25-CK35) puts out
8.3GPM at2500-2560psi and weighs about 3100# naked. Huge difference in weight and hyd pressure. Both
are very important,much more important than flow.

I had a B21 for nearly a year (see resto project on TBN), as well as a CK30 now. The best comparo I have on
hoe performance is 2 tractors with the only significant difference being weight: a JD955 and my CK30. Both had
same hyd pressure and the same hoe mounted (Prairie Dog 7.5). The JD weighs 1000# less than the Kioti, about
what a B21 weighs. The Kioti was much more productive, even if both hoes could really move the tractor around.

 

[Carl_NH]

Hi Dave,

I followed your B21 rebuild back in the day and just curious can you comment on the Kioti CK as a TLB? No question that the CK30 is 3000 Lbs naked and has 9 more HP but is it as "integrated" as the B21 frame wise out of the box?

If I recall correctly you custom built the CK sub frame with the Prairie Dog BH and made substantial integrations?

What would a buyer of a CK30 with standard Kioti 2475 BH get for a sub-frame setup?

What is ground clearance with standard Kioti sub-frame and BH on CK30?
Is the under carriage of Kioti steel frame/flat surface like the B21?

No question, weight is key in a TLB, and 1000 lbs is a big benefit for Kioti, so just wanted to know how Kioti compares "out of the box" vs the B21.

Carl

 

[Gittyup]

Dave, you are far more of an expert than I. But, flow is important for speed, especially when doing two functions at once on a backhoe. Not as important as pressure of course.

Are all 8 gpm available to implements on the B21? And is that the total gpm available? Kioti has 12.7 total, with about 4 dedicated to steering, leaving the rest for implements. This is real nice when carrying really heavy loads in the loader.

I think you have several options of backhoes for the Kiotis. I've seen users with Kioti hoes, Woods, and Rhino. I think BobCat used a Bush Hog brand on their version. I have the Rhino and like it. It is not as tight to the tractor as the integrated hoe on the B21. It's far enough back that you can leave the 3PH arms on the tractor with the hoe attached. I makes it a little longer machine, for sure. It uses a ladder frame that attaches at 4 points. Only two pins required to attach. The frame takes about 3" off the ground clearance. leaving about 11" (ag tires). The tranny filter is a bit vulnerable on the CKs and the ladder frame helps to protect it. At least one dealer sells a custom made underbody shield. There are plenty of photos in the Kioti forum of all these things.

 

[troutsqueezer]

How does the turning radius compare between the two?
That is one reason I went with the B21.
It'll do a 180 in about half the radius of my ATV.
I'm sure that's why some construction companies like it as well.

 

[Mattc8832]

I know a guy that has a B21 and he uses it everyday almost doing contracting work and he hauls dirt up and down big slopes all the time as long as he keeps the backhoe attachment on. He said when he removes the backhoe and even puts a 3pt attachment such as a tiller or brush hog it really hurts his traction and stablitily.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I bought the B21 because it is very maneuverable and can do serious work in confined spaces without knocking down all the bushes and small trees and ruining lawns.