Tractor Sizing How would you attack this problem? (tractor sizing, etc)

[jeff9366]

beep chirp whirr

What am I trying to accomplish?

Loader tasks:
- snow removal at least the first lot, but ideally both (just the fel+bucket, or snowthrower?)

Disclosure: Florida person writing about snow removal.

Snowblowers are for deep snow. Snowblowers do not do well with 2" to 4" of snow.

If you need to clear a road, just one lane, get a front V-plow so you can clear snow rapidly in one or two passes.
VIDEO: tractor snow v-plow - YouTube

If you need to clear a rectangle use your FEL bucket, possibly with Snow Edge or Edge Tamer additions.
VIDEO: SNOW EDGE TRACTOR - YouTube

If you need to clear a rectangle and have regular >4" snowfall buy a SSQA Snow Pusher Bucket for your FEL.
VIDEO: Tractor Snow Pusher - YouTube



Other tractor applications:

- rehab then maintain existing paths through both forests (rotary cutter?)

Yes, a fairly heavy Rotary Cutter and a Ratchet Rake bucket attachment.
VIDEO: ratchet rake brush clearing - YouTube
DIRECT VENDER: Ratchet Rake, LLC - All Terrain Rake, Snow Edge, Tractor attachment, Bucket attachment, Loader, Skid loader, Kubota, Skid steer, Landscape rake, Brush remover, York Rake, Harley Rake, Rock Rake, Tractor rake attachment, Construction attachment, New Holland, Bobcat, Fire safety, Home fire safety, Fire prevention, John Deere, skid steer attachment, tractor implement

- help with forest maintenance/logging - trees die, the ability to lift/move trunks, haul wood, chip small branches, etc - thinking a lot about a grapple and a 3 point hitch chipper, for example

With less than five acres of concern a grapple is overkill in price and will be underused. Allocate grapple money to upgrade from a subcompact tractor to a compact tractor.
Consider 38" (short) SSQA Pallet Forks.
You can tow large trees using chain from the tree to the tractor rear/center drawbar.
LINK: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...rs-cross-drawbars-illuminated.html?highlight=

I owned a Wallenstein chipper. PTO chippers require too much maintenance beginning the second year of use. Burn tree debris if permissible.

- pick up the occasional light pallet and move it
Consider 38" (short) SSQA Pallet Forks.


- lift/move/redistribute earth to terrace a new section on the hill in the first lot.
- move mulch/dirt/rock/firewood/x/y/z from drop point (typically driveway) to where needed.
- handle graveling additional section(s) as needed
FEL bucket.


- handle regrading of the gravel driveway in the second lot
Ratchet Rake bucket attachment.

- lawn care for at least the first lot (mowing, annual aeration, etc)
Mid Mount Mower (MMM) ((expensive)) or Three Point Hitch Finish Mower. ((moderate cost))
VIDEO: Comparing Finish Mowers (midmount VS 3-point) - Kubota B26�1 - YouTube

 

[dodge man]

I see a lot of people recommend a tractor and a separate mower. Great advice if you have the money and the space to store them.

I just want one machine. I had a Kubota BX for 10 years and just bought a Deere 2025R. It similar in size to a kubota B tractor. Just my opinion but the only big advantage of JD is the auto connect deck. The mid mount mower comes off in just a couple of minutes. I would recommend a compact size if you can afford it.

 

[beep chirp whirr]

What is your budget? For you size a B series is right in the wheel house. If you every might get a larger track you may want to look at the L series. The belly mower is great on the B but you may want a RFM with the 2501 L series. If you don't have a lot of obstacles that is a good option. Good luck and keep us posted.

I could do 40k for the solution, whatever combination of equipment that might end up being.

Everything you describe is tough work. A mistake is to minimilize just how tough it is. I live on 5 acres as well with about your same topography, My 2500 lb tractor (closer to 4000 with fel, filled tires) has done work with so much more authority over my previous 1900 lb machine (closer to 3000 lb with same), I could kick myself for having to put up with the differences for so long.
The most all around tire on a tractor for a person wanting to do everything I feel is a set of turfs with a set of chains. Turfs are quite good in snow and easy on the lawn. With chains, you pick up their compromises in the woods and anywhere more traction is needed. 2 link ladder chains would be all you need and they'd also help in protecting the tires from abrasions for the tougher stuff.

I don't disagree - it is tough work. If I was downplaying / minimizing it at all, it's due to family pressure. We've taken down trees, chunked, hauled them all by hand for 30+ years (5 so far this year, at least another 3-4 to go - downed and chunked by chainsaw, moved, split, etc by human power), so there's some questions about why looking into tooling to help with the task. Personally, I'm of the belief that humans are tool using creatures, and that there is such a thing as working smarter as opposed to harder. Which is kind of why I'm here, seeking advice from those of you who have already gone through this evolution, moving from 'lets do everything by hand, and who needs anything more than a push mower' and into the realm of 'hey, tools are great, lets use the right tool for the right job'.

As for tires, it was either going to be turfs (or turfs+chains as you recommend), or industrials, depending. I know Messicks has put out some interesting videos showing traction differences between them, and also showing how kind/unkind they are to grass. You all here have the experience working with this stuff out in the wild/real world, and that means more than whatever a glossy/brochure can say.

You don't need much of a mower to mow that much area. I would consider a compact tractor instead of the SC, the faster you can remove snow the better. A front mounted blower, a loader and a 5ft bush hog. I would stay around 25hp to avoid regens and all the EPA non sense..

Agreed that I don't have a ton of grass between the two lots... and the first/primary lot isn't a bunch either (0.3 acres). I was debating the SC more because, well, entering the market here, and it looked like the SC would make a better mower. But if the overall recommendation is to split the mowing from the tractor due to size/terrain features, then that isn't much of a consideration any more. And honesty compels me to admit, I like the idea of having a little more capacity in the fel...

I see a lot of people recommend a tractor and a separate mower. Great advice if you have the money and the space to store them.

I just want one machine. I had a Kubota BX for 10 years and just bought a Deere 2025R. It similar in size to a kubota B tractor. Just my opinion but the only big advantage of JD is the auto connect deck. The mid mount mower comes off in just a couple of minutes. I would recommend a compact size if you can afford it.

If I can make it work in the budget, I do have space to store both. I was originally thinking to try and accomplish everything in one machine, but if it's a better solution to split the duties (especially given size/terrain features) then that's what I'll do.

Given the suggestions so far, it sounds like bigger is better (C vs SC), and that I should consider splitting mowing out to a dedicated machine.

So a B2301 or B2601 (-1?) perhaps? Or the B2650? (or pick your poison from whatever other manufacturer out there - am not wedded to Kubota, just what I've done the most research on so far - if you think a Farmall 35A Series II is the better fit (or whatever, you know, just examples), please, let me know. You're the domain expert here, and I'm new to this domain.)
with the FEL w/ SSQA, not pin, and a ballast box, at a minimum (and a 3rd function valve and probably at least one rear remote, better to have and not need and all that)
Implements being:
- rotary cutter (maybe the rcr12 or the rcr15? or something else?)
- some sort of front blade for pushing snow < 4"
- optionally the 55" snowthrower for dealing with > 4" of snow
- passing on the grapple for now, drag stuff with chains or chunk and put into a carryall
- ratchet rake bucket attachment (and possibly the towed version as well?)
- box blade (and/or land plane? whatever the best approach for grading/regrading land/gravel/etc)
- small ssqa pallet forks
- quickhitch for 3pt?
- aerator for 3pt (or rent annually?)

And a separate mower, if splitting things off. I saw both a rider and a zero turn listed as suggestions. Using Kubota examples (again, not wedded to it, just the one I've done the most research on), so a T2290KWT-48 ? A Z122E ? A GR2120-2-48 ? I'll confess I hadn't looked much at mowers yet because I'd originally been thinking the One Machine To Rule Them All, but if it's legitimately the better solution (and it does sound like it might be, based on the comments so far), then I'll need to do more research in that direction as well.

My thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond so far, I really appreciate it.

 

[jeff9366]

Implements being:
- quickhitch for 3pt?

This seems like a simple question, but it is slightly complicated to answer.

As you now know, the Three Point Hitch is a universal standard. With an economy tractor you have to back the tractor to the implement very precisely in order to insert the two LOWER LINK attachment pins. Many use an iron 'spud bar' to jockey the implement a tiny amount to make holes align, rather then moving the tractor repeatedly. So attaching implements to a 1,700 pound bare weight subcompact tractor, which will use light implements, is relatively easy.

Deluxe tractors have LOWER LINKS which telescope/adjust about 2-1/2", so the tractor does not have to be as precisely positioned. Deluxe tractors have telescoping LOWER LINK stabilizers too, which make implement connection easier. Implements for a 4,000 pound bare weight tractor weigh 500 pounds to 1,200 pounds; heavy implements are difficult to move manually.

VIDEO: Kubota Standard L Series L843 Telescopic Stabilizer kit (overview and install) - YouTube



Economy tractors often have an optional "quick hitch" attached to the LOWER LINKS. This allows LOWER LINKS to pass under pins, then raise, capturing LOWER LINK pins in a slot. Almost every implement manufacturer produces rear "Quick Hitches" as well as implements. The TOP LINK is not modified by the Quick Hitch. (The most popular Quick Hitch not associated with tractor brand affiliated implement producer is Pat's Quick Hitch, produced by Greenwell Manufacturing in Kentucky.)

When I was younger and less experienced with tractors I owned two economy tractors around 2,000 pounds bare tractor weight. Each had individual quirks connecting implements. At first I found connecting implements confounding, especially in hot Florida weather and I grudged the time and sweat involved. With experience connecting implements became easier. (I use my tractor 250 - 300 engine hours per year.)

Do you need a Quick Hitch?
What weight tractor and what weight implements will you buy?
How many implements will you own over time and how often will you exchange one for another?
(Quick Hitch stays on the tractor, so you only need one)
Can you afford a deluxe tractor, rather than an economy tractor?


Quick Hitch downsides:
QHs lengthen LOWER LINKS 3" to 4" so you need to make QH decision before you buy PTO powered implements, as the PTO shaft length has to be custom cut to fit the length of LOWER LINKS.

A QH does nothing to assist mating an implement PTO shaft to the PTO splines on the tractor. PTO mating is always a greasy struggle but another evolution that becomes simpler with experience and finding the appropriate spline lube.

Most tractor implements do not use tractor PTO power, THANK GOD.

Almost all NEW implements are compatible with QHs. Older implements not. So you may find QH is not compatible with old, used implements you may wish to buy.


So many who purchase QHs will be homeowners who use economy tractors around 80 engine hours per year and are not interested in spending time struggling with implement mounting.

VIDEO: tractor quick hitch - YouTube


I am dedicated to simplicity in everything tractor. I love the hitch on my deluxe Kubota 'Grand L' tractor at age 72 years. Now that I have 2,500 engine hours of tractor experience I could live with an economy tractor without a QH if budget required an economy tractor rather than a deluxe tractor.

 

[jeff9366]

beep chirp whirr
Implements being:

- passing on the grapple for now, drag stuff with chains or chunk and put into a carryall

Drag with chains or carry on SSQA Pallet Forks. PHOTOS
Using Pallet Forks you can usually push two tines under debris, then pick debris up.
Do not use your back to lift debris into a carryall.

- ratchet rake bucket attachment (and possibly the towed version as well?)

Bucket attachment only. Buy the Ratchet Rake first. You may get along fine using the Ratchet Rake for grading for some time, while you ponder Box Blade and LPGS options.

Ratchet Rake // Today
6/09/2016​

This post concerns Ratchet Rakes Vs. light Box Blades, such as the 60" Land Pride BB1260/346 pounds/69 pounds per foot.

I searched for the weight of Kubota L3301 bucket but could not find a number. I presume L3301 bucket weighs approximately 240 pounds, extrapolating from other kubota specs. 68" Ratchet Rake weighs 88 pounds. Adding 240 + 88 = 328 pounds, pretty close to 346 pounds of BB1260 Box Blade.

In addition, the (operator controlled) weight of the FEL frame bears on the Ratchet Rake. Likewise, weight of the Three Point Hitch bears on the Box Blade. FEL frames weigh much more than ( 3X? 4X?) Three Point Hitch components. So, including some FEL weight, I guesstimate that ground contact pressure on Ratchet Rake and BB1260 would be at least equal, perhaps greater pressure on the Ratchet Rake.

Further in Ratchet Rake's favor you have articulation of bucket/RR combination in two planes from the operator's station and 1-1/2" serrated teeth on the Ratchet Rake.

Box Blade can be raised and lowered hydraulically from the operator's station. Box Blade angle of attack is adjustable via the Three Point Hitch Top Link, but not from the operator's station. Standard Box Blade does not have rippers, standard is a smooth cutting edge.

Ratchet Rake is capable of tearing up sod with its serrated teeth, the initial operation in much grading. The Ratchet Rake will not pull as large a load as a Box Blade but it may pull 35% of capacity of BB1260 per pass, with faster cycles. Ratchet Rake is more intuitive in operation than a Box Blade, which requires considerable experience to operate efficiently.

This is why I feel the Ratchet Rake is superior to light Box Blades for LIGHT grading.

I own both a Ratchet Rake and a Rollover Box Blade.

When I have heavy grading to do, I mount my 60"/625 pound (125 pounds per foot) Bush Hog (brand) Rollover Box Blade on the tractor's Three Point Hitch AND the Ratchet Rake on my FEL bucket.

 

[Diggin It]

While a SCUT can mow, it shouldn't be considered a primary mower due to size, weight and maneuverability. There are a lot of places on a residential lot where they won't go, at least not easily. You'll find you need a smaller rider or walk behind mower for detail work. One could tailor and landscape the lot to eliminate a lot of those areas, but that takes even more work.

"- some sort of front blade for pushing snow < 4"
- optionally the 55" snowthrower for dealing with > 4" of snow"

There's a big difference in the machine required to push either of those. Even a riding mower can push a 4' blade and kits are readily available. SCUTs with loaders can push snow too. Blowers are a whole different issue.

As you price things out, you'll find blue paint costs a lot less than orange does with no loss of capability. Mine priced out at several thousand less than the orange version, which gave me room to buy a 48" tiller and a few other things.

 

[nards444]

I see a lot of people recommend a tractor and a separate mower. Great advice if you have the money and the space to store them.

I just want one machine. I had a Kubota BX for 10 years and just bought a Deere 2025R. It similar in size to a kubota B tractor. Just my opinion but the only big advantage of JD is the auto connect deck. The mid mount mower comes off in just a couple of minutes. I would recommend a compact size if you can afford it.

thing is for an acre or less which that is what it looks like here, you dont need much of a mower. When you look at the cost of a mower deck or pull behind new, then look at big box store rider or ZTR its about the same cost.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I could do 40k for the solution, whatever combination of equipment that might end up being.


I don't disagree - it is tough work. If I was downplaying / minimizing it at all, it's due to family pressure. We've taken down trees, chunked, hauled them all by hand for 30+ years (5 so far this year, at least another 3-4 to go - downed and chunked by chainsaw, moved, split, etc by human power), so there's some questions about why looking into tooling to help with the task. Personally, I'm of the belief that humans are tool using creatures, and that there is such a thing as working smarter as opposed to harder. Which is kind of why I'm here, seeking advice from those of you who have already gone through this evolution, moving from 'lets do everything by hand, and who needs anything more than a push mower' and into the realm of 'hey, tools are great, lets use the right tool for the right job'.

As for tires, it was either going to be turfs (or turfs+chains as you recommend), or industrials, depending. I know Messicks has put out some interesting videos showing traction differences between them, and also showing how kind/unkind they are to grass. You all here have the experience working with this stuff out in the wild/real world, and that means more than whatever a glossy/brochure can say.


Agreed that I don't have a ton of grass between the two lots... and the first/primary lot isn't a bunch either (0.3 acres). I was debating the SC more because, well, entering the market here, and it looked like the SC would make a better mower. But if the overall recommendation is to split the mowing from the tractor due to size/terrain features, then that isn't much of a consideration any more. And honesty compels me to admit, I like the idea of having a little more capacity in the fel...


If I can make it work in the budget, I do have space to store both. I was originally thinking to try and accomplish everything in one machine, but if it's a better solution to split the duties (especially given size/terrain features) then that's what I'll do.

Given the suggestions so far, it sounds like bigger is better (C vs SC), and that I should consider splitting mowing out to a dedicated machine.

So a B2301 or B2601 (-1?) perhaps? Or the B2650? (or pick your poison from whatever other manufacturer out there - am not wedded to Kubota, just what I've done the most research on so far - if you think a Farmall 35A Series II is the better fit (or whatever, you know, just examples), please, let me know. You're the domain expert here, and I'm new to this domain.)
with the FEL w/ SSQA, not pin, and a ballast box, at a minimum (and a 3rd function valve and probably at least one rear remote, better to have and not need and all that)
Implements being:
- rotary cutter (maybe the rcr12 or the rcr15? or something else?)
- some sort of front blade for pushing snow < 4"
- optionally the 55" snowthrower for dealing with > 4" of snow
- passing on the grapple for now, drag stuff with chains or chunk and put into a carryall
- ratchet rake bucket attachment (and possibly the towed version as well?)
- box blade (and/or land plane? whatever the best approach for grading/regrading land/gravel/etc)
- small ssqa pallet forks
- quickhitch for 3pt?
- aerator for 3pt (or rent annually?)

And a separate mower, if splitting things off. I saw both a rider and a zero turn listed as suggestions. Using Kubota examples (again, not wedded to it, just the one I've done the most research on), so a T2290KWT-48 ? A Z122E ? A GR2120-2-48 ? I'll confess I hadn't looked much at mowers yet because I'd originally been thinking the One Machine To Rule Them All, but if it's legitimately the better solution (and it does sound like it might be, based on the comments so far), then I'll need to do more research in that direction as well.

My thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond so far, I really appreciate it.

I'm curious as to what method is being used now to clear snow at your properties? Are you hiring it done, and if so, what equipment is the contractor using? Are you satisfied with that method (as in, willing to duplicate), or are you unsatisfied and looking for other options?

As far as grapple/not-grapple,

Bear in mind the "folks" here that are trying to talk you OUT of getting a grapple, will NOT be volunteering to come help you cut up and move trees by hand. If you want a grapple, get a grapple. Only reason I don't have one is, where we currently reside, I just don't have to do much tree/brush work. If the place we relocate to needs a bunch of that work done, I'll be getting one. You'll need a 3rd function for your FEL, but you'll need that for a front blade (to pivot it hydraulically from the cab) anyway.

Strongly recommend SSQA capable FEL. It's usually standard on the "regular" brands, but you have to pay extra for it if you buy a brand in a "premium" color. I also concur with what another member said about pricing/cost. I saved $20K by NOT buying a green one. Let that soak in for a moment, Twenty. Thousand. Dollars... That buys SEVERAL good implements and leaves extra money in your pocket.

Mowers,

Lots of internet 1's and 0's have been slain in the arguments of "zero turns vs. riding mowers" dramas. A zero turn is a one trick pony. It mows grass, does it well, and is the "fastest" type of mower. They will almost always do nothing else at all. And they are very expensive. A riding mower is more versatile. It mows grass, does it well, but is slower-in-time-spent to mow the same areas. It will also pull small carts, sprayers, spreaders, aerators, dethatchers, etc, that a zero turn can't tow. Some guys will insist that if you don't spend $10-15K on a commercial zero turn, then you're not a real man. But $2K into an evil "big box store" riding mower (small lawn tractor), can save you a bunch of money that you can use to buy attachments for your "big" tractor (like a 3rd function, PLUS a grapple, PLUS an angled front blade). Plus you can pull small carts, etc, with it. Just think about it and decide for your own uses which way you're better served for your money.

Tires,

Turfs are probably the way to go, just know that they puncture more easily than R4's will. So if you're out in your tree'd areas, be more mindful about running over stuff with turf tires. I went with R4's and had them filled. But I'm probably more frequently loading down my FEL (round bales of hay, etc) than you will be, and I wanted the heavier duty tires for stiffer sidewall loading, and more puncture resistance out in my pasture.

 

[beep chirp whirr]

I'm curious as to what method is being used now to clear snow at your properties? Are you hiring it done, and if so, what equipment is the contractor using? Are you satisfied with that method (as in, willing to duplicate), or are you unsatisfied and looking for other options?

I just moved back to Minnesota about four months ago; the one snow we've had since then that had any accumulation (maybe 2", in mid April), I dealt with the old fashioned way, by hand. That... wasn't the most fun, given how large the driveway is and the fact that I didn't have an actual snow shovel among my possessions. I returned from a six year stint on the west coast, and when I sold my house on the east coast, I sold all my tools for dealing with both the yard and the snow, given that I had no use for either on the west coast. The goal of this project is to make sure I'm equipped properly to handle what needs to be done for the land I have now (and to help with some family land too). What equipment I have or am using right now is all stuff I have access to from the family. When I started looking at everything I need/want to accomplish, I started to wonder if a small (originally subcompact, now compact maybe, based on feedback) didn't make more sense than doing the traditional thing in my family, which would have been a push mower and a push snowthrower, and continuing to do everything else by hand. I just felt that there was probably a better solution, which is why I'm looking around now.

 

[nards444]

I'm curious as to what method is being used now to clear snow at your properties? Are you hiring it done, and if so, what equipment is the contractor using? Are you satisfied with that method (as in, willing to duplicate), or are you unsatisfied and looking for other options?

As far as grapple/not-grapple,

Bear in mind the "folks" here that are trying to talk you OUT of getting a grapple, will NOT be volunteering to come help you cut up and move trees by hand. If you want a grapple, get a grapple. Only reason I don't have one is, where we currently reside, I just don't have to do much tree/brush work. If the place we relocate to needs a bunch of that work done, I'll be getting one. You'll need a 3rd function for your FEL, but you'll need that for a front blade (to pivot it hydraulically from the cab) anyway.

Strongly recommend SSQA capable FEL. It's usually standard on the "regular" brands, but you have to pay extra for it if you buy a brand in a "premium" color. I also concur with what another member said about pricing/cost. I saved $20K by NOT buying a green one. Let that soak in for a moment, Twenty. Thousand. Dollars... That buys SEVERAL good implements and leaves extra money in your pocket.

Mowers,

Lots of internet 1's and 0's have been slain in the arguments of "zero turns vs. riding mowers" dramas. A zero turn is a one trick pony. It mows grass, does it well, and is the "fastest" type of mower. They will almost always do nothing else at all. And they are very expensive. A riding mower is more versatile. It mows grass, does it well, but is slower-in-time-spent to mow the same areas. It will also pull small carts, sprayers, spreaders, aerators, dethatchers, etc, that a zero turn can't tow. Some guys will insist that if you don't spend $10-15K on a commercial zero turn, then you're not a real man. But $2K into an evil "big box store" riding mower (small lawn tractor), can save you a bunch of money that you can use to buy attachments for your "big" tractor (like a 3rd function, PLUS a grapple, PLUS an angled front blade). Plus you can pull small carts, etc, with it. Just think about it and decide for your own uses which way you're better served for your money.

Tires,

Turfs are probably the way to go, just know that they puncture more easily than R4's will. So if you're out in your tree'd areas, be more mindful about running over stuff with turf tires. I went with R4's and had them filled. But I'm probably more frequently loading down my FEL (round bales of hay, etc) than you will be, and I wanted the heavier duty tires for stiffer sidewall loading, and more puncture resistance out in my pasture.

I will kill some more zeroes and ones. And I like a lot of what you said and not flaming you here.

With that said though some of what you say just simply isnt true about ZTRs. For the most part a one trick pony yes. But You can tow with them, I do, has a little bracket just a like tractor I do it all the time, and it would pull a spreader and sprayer just as easy. Now your not loading it up and trailering, but my guess is you can haul just as much as much as the sears tractor or evil big box store tractors. Ive even seen snow blower attachments on them, but I wouldnt go down that road. As far as price yeah you dont need a 10-15k one for home owner use on a few acres or so. You can get a really nice one for about 5-7k. Or I got mine at Lowes for 2500 bucks and its going strong on year 5, your going to be all of 2500 bucks into a MMM.