Tractor Sizing HP Advice

[MESSMAKER]

Removing my frame mounted backhoe is easy. 3-4 minutes.
Installing my backhoe is a little more difficult. 5-10 minutes.

I have only seen a frame backhoe put on a Kubota. He said it was his second time putting it on and it probably took 20+ min. I am sure it could be done quicker but it seemed to be pretty tedious to get everything lined up.

 

[rScotty]

I would never recommend anyone back down a hill with a load, most people have a hard enough time backing up, get a load pushing you drop a tire in a hole or hit a rock, or the front end starts to come around. Just gear down start down with the load low and be ready to put your bucket down into the dirt if need be, you are much more in control driving forward then backing up. And if it gets out of control backing you have lost it, forward you may ride it out.

I'm with LouNY on this. I used to believe in backing down a hill and have done so many, many times. But this last year I was backing down a slight hill real carefully with an EMPTY bucket (but it's a big heavy bucket) carreid low to the ground when the front end slid a little sideways on a slight off-camber that I hadn't even noticed. My first reaction was to step on the brakes harder - which of course lightens the whole front end even more (oops!) - and then could do nothing but watch as the front end came right around until I was pointing with the front end downhill. Scary moment.

As it was happening I did think about dropping the bucket, but the bucket being empty the front was already half way around before I could get the bucket down so I decided to ride it out. In retrospect it was the right decision althuogh I can't claim any credit for making the right decision. It was right because it worked out OK.

The whole event was very disorienting as the tractor spun around. I haven't been that out of shape on a tractor in half a century. And I was surprised that there was so little I could do about it once it began to happen. Now I can see some sense in LouNY's saying there are times you stand a better chance of riding it out if you start out driving forward rather than backing up.

I'd say that downhill depends on the hill. If it is dead straight and level then backing down makes sense. But if there is any turn or camber from now on I'm going to start out going forwards, because that's likely to be the direction I'll be pointing about half way down anyway.
rScotty

 

[sd455dan]

After all the "do this....do that" in this thread, plus the fact that you already decided what to get,,,a couple of things stand out that hardly anyone mentioned...suggest you get R1 Ag tires...they'll handle better and last longer and have them loaded when you buy the tractor. Bunch of folks will say get "beet juice"...personally, I use methanol (most tractor places do and its the most economical of the possibilities). Bunch of folks say get the HST...so be it...but I prefer 8 or 12 speed shuttle...with syncro gears. Especially if you ever decide to use any REAL ground engaging stuff....also I've got the Backhoe as well...I haven't put it on in a couple of years, but if the $$ doesn't bother you get it with the tractor and have the dealer put it on before you buy...(the real issue is the subframe...I did it myself with the help of a couple of friends...and a good impact wrench...). Anyhow... good luck. PS: I'll probably get flamed for taking the contrarian view on most everything, but most of what you are gonna do, I've been there///done that. BobG in VA

^^^ Good points agree R1's, either loaded or wheel weights, syncro shuttle and shift,
and If set on an add on backhoe- get a subframe mountable one.

ps. i will stay out of the backing or driving straight down a hill other than to say make sure it is in 4x4 at the time

 

[paulfun9]

I'm with LouNY on this. I used to believe in backing down a hill and have done so many, many times. But this last year I was backing down a slight hill real carefully with an EMPTY bucket (but it's a big heavy bucket) carreid low to the ground when the front end slid a little sideways on a slight off-camber that I hadn't even noticed. My first reaction was to step on the brakes harder - which of course lightens the whole front end even more (oops!) - and then could do nothing but watch as the front end came right around until I was pointing with the front end downhill. Scary moment.

As it was happening I did think about dropping the bucket, but the bucket being empty the front was already half way around before I could get the bucket down so I decided to ride it out. In retrospect it was the right decision althuogh I can't claim any credit for making the right decision. It was right because it worked out OK.

The whole event was very disorienting as the tractor spun around. I haven't been that out of shape on a tractor in half a century. And I was surprised that there was so little I could do about it once it began to happen. Now I can see some sense in LouNY's saying there are times you stand a better chance of riding it out if you start out driving forward rather than backing up.

I'd say that downhill depends on the hill. If it is dead straight and level then backing down makes sense. But if there is any turn or camber from now on I'm going to start out going forwards, because that's likely to be the direction I'll be pointing about half way down anyway.
rScotty

If you think the front came around fast wait till the rear does it! Only problem with the rear doing it is it would then have more of a tendency to roll.
When I talked about the neighbor that put his Kubota in the ditch that exactly what happened to him but he was going forward with weight in the bucket on an off camber turn. He has backed down ever since and to date hasn't had a problem even when its muddy.

So I now must question what had more weight when this happened, the front with an empty bucket or the rear of the tractor with an implement or maybe weighted tires or wheels?

 

[Grandad4]

I always went with keeping the heavy end (whichever that might be), on the uphill side on anything at all steep, and staying as close to the fall line as possible so the machine stays as close to level from side-to-side as possible. Getting sideways even a small amount on a slope can quickly set up a tip-over situation. Adding a 2,000 lb backhoe changed the front/rear balance totally (and also raised the center of gravity) on my rig.

Also would not take the equipment up or down a wet hillside... too much risk of losing traction. Just not worth taking a chance like that.

You are totally dependent on your equipment working properly with hillside work. Under pressured tires, a tendency to pop out of gear, weak brakes, erratic hydraulics, just about any mechanical hiccup at the wrong time can ruin your day. If it's not drop-dead reliable, don't take chances with it.

 

[rScotty]

^^^ Good points agree R1's, either loaded or wheel weights, syncro shuttle and shift,
and If set on an add on backhoe- get a subframe mountable one.

ps. i will stay out of the backing or driving straight down a hill other than to say make sure it is in 4x4 at the time

I think the reason that we haven't talked much about the importance of having the tractor locked into 4x4 on hills is because everyone assumed that would be the case. i.e. the tractor should be in gear and in 4x4 regardless.

HST and shuttle shifters have some basic difference in how they how they work on hills.

With HST, no matter what the engine RPM is doing, taking your foot off the HST pedal puts the transmission into braking mode. With your foot off the HST pedal there is no drive to the wheels at all, and the tires can't rotate. HSTs can't "coast" like the automatic in a car does. With HST, how much drive you have to the wheels depends only on the HST pedal position and is mostly independent of engine RPM.

Now in shuttle shifters, the opposite is true: more engine RPM always gives greater drive force. Reducing throttle slows down the drive, but even at idle a shuttle is always trying to turn the drive wheels unless it is either shifted in neutral or the brakes are put on hard enough to overpower the shuttle drive. And in neutral, there is no braking help from the transmission. The same features that make shuttle preferable for constant speed tractor work in fields can make shuttles tricky on hills.
luck,
rScotty

 

[MossRoad]

Look at it this way... put a pear fruit in your palm. Try and balance it on the stem, and then try and balance it on it's wider end. A tractor on a hill is the same deal. If all the weight is at the back, it's easier to get out of kilter and swing around VS if you have all the weight pointing down the hill to begin with.

Here's another analogy.... using pinewood derby cars. To make the cars go faster, the kids (not you, dad) put as much concentrated weight at the rear of the car. Why? Because on the ramp, going down hill, the weight behind the car spends the most time pushing down before the ramp levels out, gaining speed. The more weight at the back, the longer time it spends pushing, the faster you go down the hill.