HP and Tier 4 question

[EddieWalker]

I'm sure that I've read that answer to this somewhere, but so far, I haven't found it anywhere.

If all goes well, which is never does, I'm sort of, kind of, hoping that I might actually buy a cab tractor later this year. If that happens, the two concerns that I have is Tier 4, and computers built into it that will only allow the dealer to repair it. The main use for this tractor will be pulling a batwing. I would prefer a 15 foot, but might consider 12 foot.

Is there a HP rating in a new tractor that does not have Regen? From what I've read and watched on Youtube, the Regen process is where all of the issues with Tier 4 seem to happen. I would really prefer not to deal with any of that. I can get more HP and features for less money if I buy used. If I can avoid the computer issue, that would be a good reason to buy used. Or if there is a brand that sells new tractors that does not have the computer issue for repairs. I believe both Kubota and Deere have gone that route, I'm not sure of other brands.

I thought that 75 hp was the line for Regen and Tier 4. Am I correct in thinking that I can buy a new 74 HP tractor or less and avoid Regen?

 

[GSVette]

No-Iirc the cutoff for DPF ( or DOC) as well as all the computerized nonsense to meet tier IV final is ~25hp. Everything above that is going to have the emissions stuff and consequently regenerate.

 

[jeff9366]

Stricter Tier IV off-road diesel engine emission reduction standards phased in on dealer tractor inventory during 2009, impacting tractor prices.

Tier IV emission standards require tractor manufacturers to add or revise pollution reduction technology on new tractors generating over 19 kW power = 25.4794 horsepower.

Most manufactures can meet Tier IV requirements without a Diesel Particulate Fillter up to about 27 horsepower via engine design and injection timing.

DPF is used by the majority of tractor manufactures for more powerful tractors, but not all.



"I like the idea of no DPF on the Mahindra."

Beginning about thirty-three horsepower most tractors have Diesel Particulate Filters.

A few Tier IV compliant tractors between 26 and 75 hp use DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalyst) conversion. Mahindra is one. Mahindra has DOC of similar construction to DPF. Both the DPF and the DOC are honeycomb ceramic filters which supercede a muffler.
The DOC forces engine exhaust over a honeycomb ceramic structure coated with platinum, palladium, and rhodium. These catalysts oxidize carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water at hot exhaust temperature.

Mahindras have a DOC oven hot all the time.

DPF tractors have an oven hot intermittently.

There is no free lunch.

 

[jeff9366]

I thought that 75 hp was the line for Regen and Tier 4. Am I correct in thinking that I can buy a new 74 HP tractor or less and avoid Regen?

No.

 

[K5lwq]

Branson is only the only tractor that I am aware of that does not use a computer to control the engine and uses a very simple way of meeting emissions standards.

They may not have the size you are needing though.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Eddie,

I think the hp cutoff you are thinking about is for DEF fluid injection. I believe that starts at 75 hp.

Everything above 25 hp and below 75 hp still gets the emissions stuff but doesn't get the DEF. Unless you go "pre-Tier 4" used.

And as K5 indicates, there are a few that are extremely easy to bypass.

The Branson 45 series and 50 series both went to 78 hp. The 8050 was an extremely short production run (in the US anyway), as they were only allowed by US import law to bring in very few of them (limited importation was allowed due to not meeting emissions requirements-they didn't have any emissions "stuff" on them), and I'm not sure if the 45 series is still in production. The Branson website is still a hot mess administered by a toddler.

 

[Jchonline]

75HP is the cutoff for DEF fluid I believe. We have had DPF tractors around long enough now I dont see it as a reason to not look at a tractor with one.

My dad bought a M7060 from the Kubota dealer in Athens, so far they have been great to work with. However if you want to pull a 15 footer you probably need more tractor.

 

[ericm979]

Tier 4 emissions regs have steps at 11hp, 25hp, 75hp. (actually their metric rough equivalents). With each step the allowed emissions per HP is a little lower. In practice, 25hp machines can meet the limits with engine tuning alone. Above that they usually have EFI and always DOC, DPF or both. Above 75hp manufacturers add EGR and DEF. At least with current technology- Tier 4 sets the limits but does not say how to reach them.

Except for larger Deeres the ECU and other computers don't keep you from working on it. Unfortunately Tier 4 does not mandate the OBD2 port or something similar with published codes like our emissions regs for cars and trucks. Some manufactures use OBD2 anyhow but most have a proprietary protocol. So you probably won't be able to pull codes. But you can still diagnose problems the old fashioned way and replace parts. Deere farm tractors are their own special case where Deere is actively trying to lock owners out of doing stuff but you're probably not looking at those.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you. I really want something in the 100hp range, but I could save a bunch of money if I went down to 75hp and pulled a 12 foot batwing.

I think that I'll go back to my original plan, and try to find a low hour 2012 or older tractor.

 

[Williy]

Has anyone checked this out?

Tier4｜VISION01｜Technology｜About Us｜YANMAR USA

Introducing Yanmar's Tier4 and Stage V compliant engine. Having built the first ever small-sized diesel engine, Yanmar has been a consistent performer in the diesel engine arena ever since. Our environmental performance is no exception. Yanmar engineers succeed in meeting Tier 4 standards with...

www.yanmar.com

willy

 

[Zakatak]

Has anyone checked this out?

Tier4｜VISION01｜Technology｜About Us｜YANMAR USA

Introducing Yanmar's Tier4 and Stage V compliant engine. Having built the first ever small-sized diesel engine, Yanmar has been a consistent performer in the diesel engine arena ever since. Our environmental performance is no exception. Yanmar engineers succeed in meeting Tier 4 standards with...

www.yanmar.com

willy

I know that the Massey 1835M that i have on order is stage V compliant. Im not crazy about the reliability of emissions equipment but the tractor had everything else i wanted.

I have not had the opportunity to research Stage V vs Tier IV Final. I know i have read that it has been implemented in Europe. My gut tells me its another level of Tier IV since it is not written as TIER V.

I look forward to anyones response that has more insight into the matter.

 

[bdog]

Thank you. I really want something in the 100hp range, but I could save a bunch of money if I went down to 75hp and pulled a 12 foot batwing.

I think that I'll go back to my original plan, and try to find a low hour 2012 or older tractor.

if you have not been searching I think you are in for a surprise. Low hour pre emission tractors are in high demand and are commanding high prices. Many ten year old tractors are selling for more now than they did new. I was looking for virtually the same thing as you are and finally gave up. I couldn’t justify spending 60k on a ten year old machine when I could buy a new one with warranty for less.

For the most part tractors with DPF only and no DEF aren’t that bad. DEF typically starts once you exceed 75 HP and DPF starts over 25HP.

 

[EddieWalker]

You're right. It's tough finding a low hour tractor that is before Tier 4 emissions. I still might buy new. For now, I'm just day dreaming and trying to learn as much as I can.

 

[bdog]

If you like Deere I know where a pre emission 5100E cab and loader is with 300 hours. Old man owned it and rarely used it. He passed away and his brother hung on to it for years. It isn’t cheap I think they want 55k but it might be one of the lowest hour pre emission tractors you can find. I almost bought it myself but decided the green paint wasn’t worth that much to me.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks, but I'm not ready to buy yet. I want to pay off my wife's Mini Van and our new HVAC system first.

 

[5030]

I'm sure that I've read that answer to this somewhere, but so far, I haven't found it anywhere.

If all goes well, which is never does, I'm sort of, kind of, hoping that I might actually buy a cab tractor later this year. If that happens, the two concerns that I have is Tier 4, and computers built into it that will only allow the dealer to repair it. The main use for this tractor will be pulling a batwing. I would prefer a 15 foot, but might consider 12 foot.

Is there a HP rating in a new tractor that does not have Regen? From what I've read and watched on Youtube, the Regen process is where all of the issues with Tier 4 seem to happen. I would really prefer not to deal with any of that. I can get more HP and features for less money if I buy used. If I can avoid the computer issue, that would be a good reason to buy used. Or if there is a brand that sells new tractors that does not have the computer issue for repairs. I believe both Kubota and Deere have gone that route, I'm not sure of other brands.

I thought that 75 hp was the line for Regen and Tier 4. Am I correct in thinking that I can buy a new 74 HP tractor or less and avoid Regen?

No, it's 24 pto horsepower. I'd look hard and buy a pre 4 unit like I did. I already had a 2004 M9000 (83 pt0) and took my time and found another M9000 (2002) vintage in really good condition and bought it. Had it shipped from the seller directly to my dealer and had them go through it. 600 mile trip. They went completely through it to the tune of 4 grand but it's a dandy unit and it males 92 horses on their dyno. I'm impressed with it. 6000 meter hours which isn't squat for an M9. Has a loader with SSQA and came with 2 buckets too. I have 20 total in it. My other one I bought new and it was 53. Been offered (by my dealer who went through it, 30 if I wanted to sell it. Not for sale.

They are hard to find (pre 4's in good condition), but they are out there, you have to look.