HP difference between 3pt and pull type rotary cutters

[C4Ranch]

Hi, looking at a Landpride twin spindle rcf3096 3pt. On Craigslist. Specs say the pull type can run on 40hp but 3pt runs on 50...

My tractor specs out at 45pto hp....

Tractor weight isn't an issue, cab tractor with loaded tires.

Anyone know why 3pt requires more PTO and thoughts if I should stay away frome it since I'm at 45?

 

[smstonypoint]

I'm not an expert, but my impression is that the HP recommendations provided by the manufacturers are based at least in part on 3PH lifting capacity.

You should be OK if you have sufficient lifting capacity. You may have to slow down and/or make less than full-width passes when hogging thick/heavy growth.

Steve

 

[oosik]

I'm no expert either but I think the extra Hp requirements for the 3pt is for the capacity to lift - which is not required for the pull type. Exact same thing as smstonypoint indicates.

 

[LD1]

Agreed with others.

To actually spin and power the cutter, there should be no noticeable difference. But the 3096 is a heavy cutter that hangs back a ways. Not every tractor between 40-50 would be able to handle it hanging off the hitch. So they just up the min-recommendation to CYA.

The old ford 801 series tractors were rated over 40hp PTO, but would you want to hang a 3096 off the back?

ITs a 1600# cutter. And even on your 5240, you may need some additional weight up front.

 

[Soundguy]

Agreed as well, they spec a higher pto hp thinking it will be a bigger tractor for a lift type, even though the blades are doing the same work on both cutters.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I would be pretty leery if you aren't above the minimum cutter specs. I have an MX10 3pt and its a load on my 5083E. I have 69pto hp IIRC. Also, since you have HST I would make doubly sure I was over the min specs unless you are just doing light cutting. Anything about waist high will be interesting unless you are in the dead flat.

 

[BWfarms]

The increased rating on a 3 point is because the tractor is doing 3 operations. Lifting, pulling, and turning. The tractor has to have the power to maintain the hydraulic pump holding the mower, the pto has to have power through the changing forage, and the transmission needs power to the ground to maintain speed.

I prefer pull type for multiple spindles. Yes they cost more but they are smoother to operate and don't bounce you around on every bump.

 

[Soundguy]

I would be pretty leery if you aren't above the minimum cutter specs. I have an MX10 3pt and its a load on my 5083E. I have 69pto hp IIRC. Also, since you have HST I would make doubly sure I was over the min specs unless you are just doing light cutting. Anything about waist high will be interesting unless you are in the dead flat.

JD must be using small horses these days!

I have an 'old' 1975 ford 5000 70 hp engine, 67 at the pto, I pull a howse 10' 3pt mower with it. Have yet to find something I cound not drive over or cut, from 3-4" green treelings and down. 3" green or 2-3" woody tree makes a little racket back there, but the rpms don't change any.

Stemmy tall weeds are easier to cut than lush dense grass.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

WEll, they may be lighter. I know I could use some more HP when the fields get taller than the front tires, I usually have to mow at around 3.5mph but even at 10 wide thats alotta grass. I don't think these turbo'd engines have nearly the same capability as the inline 6 NA engines! I know the tractors are significantly lighter now.

 

[LD1]

HST makes it even better cause you can go as slow as you need. I dont see it being an issue at all on a 5240. Its a ~1600# cutter with a load centered somewhere around 2' back. Its basically a pair of 48" cutters side by side.

I run an 1100# 6' cutter on my much smaller tractor with load centered farther back. I cut some thick nasty stuff and rarely if ever do I need to slow to 3rd gear. Most of my mowing is in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear. I actually wish I had an 8' cutter to run. But they are all expensive and heavier than I would want. rough terrain slows me down more times than lack of power. I would rather run a 33% larger cutter at a 33% slower speed and enjoy the smoother ride.

If I had a 5240, there would be no question I would want an 8' cutter. And the only reason I wouldnt consider larger is for trailering purposes and being wider than 8'6"

 

[C4Ranch]

:confused3:

The increased rating on a 3 point is because the tractor is doing 3 operations. Lifting, pulling, and turning. The tractor has to have the power to maintain the hydraulic pump holding the mower, the pto has to have power through the changing forage, and the transmission needs power to the ground to maintain speed.

I prefer pull type for multiple spindles. Yes they cost more but they are smoother to operate and don't bounce you around on every bump.

Not following this post. It's not like it takes any hp or hydraulic flow to hold an implement.:confused3:

 

[Soundguy]

WEll, they may be lighter. I know I could use some more HP when the fields get taller than the front tires, I usually have to mow at around 3.5mph but even at 10 wide thats alotta grass. I don't think these turbo'd engines have nearly the same capability as the inline 6 NA engines! I know the tractors are significantly lighter now.

the old ford has a NA 256ci engine, and an 8sp tranny.. usually has more power available than the clutch can handle.

I have a larger 7610s, 304ci noisier, but I like it. also a 4 cyl job, but turbo. that one pulls a 1517 jd batwing.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

HST makes it even better cause you can go as slow as you need. I dont see it being an issue at all on a 5240. Its a ~1600# cutter with a load centered somewhere around 2' back. Its basically a pair of 48" cutters side by side.

I run an 1100# 6' cutter on my much smaller tractor with load centered farther back. I cut some thick nasty stuff and rarely if ever do I need to slow to 3rd gear. Most of my mowing is in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear. I actually wish I had an 8' cutter to run. But they are all expensive and heavier than I would want. rough terrain slows me down more times than lack of power. I would rather run a 33% larger cutter at a 33% slower speed and enjoy the smoother ride.

If I had a 5240, there would be no question I would want an 8' cutter. And the only reason I wouldnt consider larger is for trailering purposes and being wider than 8'6"

I disagree about the HST, i ran a woods RM59... behind the L3400 with HST and it would seriously bog the motor down when making uphill turns. For a Tiller, HST is AWesome, for Higher HP pto jobs, ill take a geared tractor anyday!


Soundguy, I enjoy running those older machines except for the lack of AC! The old 4020 still is a heck of a machine that gets used quite frequently!

 

[BWfarms]

:confused3:

Not following this post. It's not like it takes any hp or hydraulic flow to hold an implement.:confused3:

The tractor goes under load anytime you use the 3 point hitch to raise an implement. When you use a service remote that operates a hydraulic cylinder, this "powers" the implement's lift and takes less effort from the tractor.

While a pull type is heavier because it has more metal, it's weight is distributed further back. 3 point implement's change the weight of the tractor itself considerably. Think this way, just walk up a flight of stairs. Then walk that same flight of stairs carrying 100 lbs, takes more effort right?

 

[LD1]

I currently use my tractor 90% of the time custom mowing commercially, which I think is what the OP wants to do.

My next one will be something around 50HP and HST with and 8' twin if its any indication.

Currently, I shift gears alot. The fields arent uniform in their growth and thickness, or smoothness. I want to mow as fast as I can stand (bumps wise) and I have power to handle

 

[C4Ranch]

The tractor goes under load anytime you use the 3 point hitch to raise an implement. When you use a service remote that operates a hydraulic cylinder, this "powers" the implement's lift and takes less effort from the tractor.

While a pull type is heavier because it has more metal, it's weight is distributed further back. 3 point implement's change the weight of the tractor itself considerably. Think this way, just walk up a flight of stairs. Then walk that same flight of stairs carrying 100 lbs, takes more effort right?

I'm with ya on use of hydraulics taking HP but with a 3pt cutter, don't u set the hight once and mow on? I don't understand how why you would rob PTO hp unless you're constantly raising it?

Plus this is a twin spindle so it's not set as far back. Just trying to understand.

 

[C4Ranch]

Your analogy of 100lbs climbing stairs. Are you saying that a truck carrying 100 lbs payload is working harder than a truck pulling a 100 lbs trailer? Wouldn't it be the same analogy? I don't know any of the physics but doesn't make sense to me.

 

[LD1]

Using the remotes to power a hydraulic cylinder or using the 3PH (which powers and internal hydraulic cylinder) there is no difference.

I also dont see a difference between pulling a 3PH cutter up a hill with the tailwheels on the ground, or towing a pull unit up a hill. If anything the pull unit will take more effort cause they are heavier

 

[ovrszd]

I would be pretty leery if you aren't above the minimum cutter specs. I have an MX10 3pt and its a load on my 5083E. I have 69pto hp IIRC. Also, since you have HST I would make doubly sure I was over the min specs unless you are just doing light cutting. Anything about waist high will be interesting unless you are in the dead flat.

I think he can turn the cutter. But I'd question the ability to carry a 3pt model. I use a 3pt JD 1008 cutter (10ft) on my M9540. I remove the FEL. Then I add 1000lb of suitcase weights to the front. I can still do a wheelie if changing directions quickly.

TripleR runs a cutter with his 5740. Maybe he'll chime in and offer an opinion.

 

[Soundguy]

Your analogy of 100lbs climbing stairs. Are you saying that a truck carrying 100 lbs payload is working harder than a truck pulling a 100 lbs trailer? Wouldn't it be the same analogy? I don't know any of the physics but doesn't make sense to me.

lets look at it like this. I'll use numbers I happen to know off the top of my head.

my 3pt 10' cutter weighs 2400#

at work we have a 3pt cutter in 12' ( why?! ) I can't lift the 12' cutter on my ford 5000 but can lift the 10' cutter with some ballast. the weight difference is just right on that line for my 3pt lift.

I can however drag that 12' cutter semi-mount and cut just fine. In fact, i have pulled my 15' batwing with my 5000 in light grass, but I don't like it as much as having my 7610-s pull either of the mowers.

the larger the tractor, the more weight it can heft around and the more stable it will feel. For instance with my 10' mower raised ont he 3pt on my 5000, if I hit a bump, i feel it, even with front ballast. .. on my 7610s, naa. tractor is quite a bit heavier, less felt bounce.

larger tractors generally have more hp than smaller tractors.

thus, for an implement manufacturer to say that he wants a little more hp for the 3pt version of a mower than the drag version.... he's really saying that he wants a heavier tractor for the 3pt.

since you don't see tractor weights advertised on tractor hoods, but you do often see references to horse power, it's easier to just switcht he weight rec over to saying you need a higher hp tractor when in reality.. you likely need a heavier tractor. ( ALSO.. WITH THE EXTRA WEIGHT, YOU PROBABLY want a lil more hp too, as a makup for the weight trade off. ).