hayden
Veteran Member
Why don't larger tractors generally have HST options? Is there a technical or economic constraint? Every few years they seem to move up to larger tractors. If I wait long enough will an M9000 have HST?
HST in larger tractors?
- Thread starter hayden
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rbargeron
Elite Member
Good question. I don't have a clue what the answer is - but that has never stopped me from going on at length. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
High-zoot hydraulics are in nearly all the really big stuff - Caterpillar and Komatsu have computerized "HST" that would knock your socks off. The biggest off-road trucks have been automatic forever. Many industrial TLB's are all hydraulic. Size, power and torque are not an obstacle. But cost is.
I think the mid-size utility tractor market just isn't quite ready to pay for this feature. Many ag tractors do a lot of steady-state constant-speed work which doesn't benefit from hydraulic drive.
Markets have inertia - they are slow to adjust - another good example is tire size - why are the rears so much bigger than the fronts if the fronts do most of the work? Because that's the way we like 'em, always have, always will, don't fix it if works, etc. etc. In what almost seemed like a practical joke, New Holland put the loader on the back - made so much sense the market should have snapped it up right away - but it's catching on very slowly. One dealer I talked to said people come and look at it, agree it's a great idea, and walk right out again. Sorry, the topic is drifting. Trolling for Mark Chalkley on the unequal tire size thing.
IMHO, HST is coming to Kubota's bigger rigs - just not real soon. My guess is that first there will be an HST L56 or L60, something for all the L owners to move to if they want more than the L48. Too bad there aren't some european tractor magazines like the car ones - we could all be looking at sneak photos of the new Grand L 5210HST or the Anniversary Edition All-Dark-Grey M6100HST Vinyard Monster. Drifting again. Hey - How about them Patriots !
High-zoot hydraulics are in nearly all the really big stuff - Caterpillar and Komatsu have computerized "HST" that would knock your socks off. The biggest off-road trucks have been automatic forever. Many industrial TLB's are all hydraulic. Size, power and torque are not an obstacle. But cost is.
I think the mid-size utility tractor market just isn't quite ready to pay for this feature. Many ag tractors do a lot of steady-state constant-speed work which doesn't benefit from hydraulic drive.
Markets have inertia - they are slow to adjust - another good example is tire size - why are the rears so much bigger than the fronts if the fronts do most of the work? Because that's the way we like 'em, always have, always will, don't fix it if works, etc. etc. In what almost seemed like a practical joke, New Holland put the loader on the back - made so much sense the market should have snapped it up right away - but it's catching on very slowly. One dealer I talked to said people come and look at it, agree it's a great idea, and walk right out again. Sorry, the topic is drifting. Trolling for Mark Chalkley on the unequal tire size thing.
IMHO, HST is coming to Kubota's bigger rigs - just not real soon. My guess is that first there will be an HST L56 or L60, something for all the L owners to move to if they want more than the L48. Too bad there aren't some european tractor magazines like the car ones - we could all be looking at sneak photos of the new Grand L 5210HST or the Anniversary Edition All-Dark-Grey M6100HST Vinyard Monster. Drifting again. Hey - How about them Patriots !
Steve_in_Ont
Silver Member
Basically, I believe that it all revolves around that gear systems are more efficient than hyrdaulics. Larger tractors are generally designed to pull large draft (tugging) loads on a regular basis (like plowing). On a smaller tractor, designers (and customers) are willing to give up some efficiency for the greatly improved maneuverablity of HST.
Buck
Platinum Member
Hayden,
My guess is that the big Mo's go for obscene lengths without the need to go back and forth like lawn mowers must.
Buck
My guess is that the big Mo's go for obscene lengths without the need to go back and forth like lawn mowers must.
Buck
MChalkley
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rbargeron - I almost missed your post - I usually avoid threads that have "HST" in them. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
You made some very good points. And as for the <font color=blue>Trolling for Mark Chalkley on the unequal tire size thing.</font color=blue> comment, you hooked and landed me. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I think you pinpointed the main reason most things are the way they are when you said it's because they've always been that way. Sure seems that way to me.
On another note, I've been trying to figure out who to root for in the Super Bowl - do you think I should root for New England? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
You made some very good points. And as for the <font color=blue>Trolling for Mark Chalkley on the unequal tire size thing.</font color=blue> comment, you hooked and landed me. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I think you pinpointed the main reason most things are the way they are when you said it's because they've always been that way. Sure seems that way to me.
On another note, I've been trying to figure out who to root for in the Super Bowl - do you think I should root for New England? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
GlueGuy
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<font color=blue>[do you think I should root for New England?</font color=blue>
Well, you sure as heck aren't going to root for the Rams, are you? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Whoops. Off topic alert! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
As for the main topic. Yep, I bet it's the old effiency thing. In fact, I was just down at the Kubota dealer the other day, and looking at 8 or 10 L3010s that they had on the lot. Every single one of them was GST. They had one L3710 with an HST, and the owner told me he couldn't "give it away with the HST"; everybody wants the GST.
Well, I tell you, the way that I use my 'bota, the HST is the best way to go. I can't even imagine using a gear tractor doing the stuff I do...
Well, you sure as heck aren't going to root for the Rams, are you? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Whoops. Off topic alert! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
As for the main topic. Yep, I bet it's the old effiency thing. In fact, I was just down at the Kubota dealer the other day, and looking at 8 or 10 L3010s that they had on the lot. Every single one of them was GST. They had one L3710 with an HST, and the owner told me he couldn't "give it away with the HST"; everybody wants the GST.
Well, I tell you, the way that I use my 'bota, the HST is the best way to go. I can't even imagine using a gear tractor doing the stuff I do...
rbargeron
Elite Member
Hey Mark - my heart is with the Pats - my money is on the Rams (what's left of it after I voted similarly last weekend)
Dick Bargeron ------------- In tractors, power is good, so is weight and crab steering ain't bad either.
Dick Bargeron ------------- In tractors, power is good, so is weight and crab steering ain't bad either.
MChalkley
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GlueGuy - <font color=blue>it's the old effiency thing ... everybody wants the GST.</font color=blue>
It's sad that so many folks could/would make such an important decision with so little knowledge of the facts. They have no one to blame but themselves - Kubota will tell you the real facts on efficiency if you take the time to call them. As to taking the word of one dealer for it, that's just plain foolish. The odds are just as good that they're uninformed as they are for the average guy. For most dealers I've met, selling tractors is just a job - they might as well be selling sewing supplies - like the Long tractor dealer who tried to convince me that hydrostatics were like automatic transmissions in cars, and were unreliable because the harder work they do causes the bands to loosen and slip, resulting in a lot of maintenance. You don't have to be smart to know the facts - you just have to be interested. And it helps to not be too gullible...
It's sad that so many folks could/would make such an important decision with so little knowledge of the facts. They have no one to blame but themselves - Kubota will tell you the real facts on efficiency if you take the time to call them. As to taking the word of one dealer for it, that's just plain foolish. The odds are just as good that they're uninformed as they are for the average guy. For most dealers I've met, selling tractors is just a job - they might as well be selling sewing supplies - like the Long tractor dealer who tried to convince me that hydrostatics were like automatic transmissions in cars, and were unreliable because the harder work they do causes the bands to loosen and slip, resulting in a lot of maintenance. You don't have to be smart to know the facts - you just have to be interested. And it helps to not be too gullible...
MChalkley
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rbargeron & GlueGuy - Ok, ya'll talked me into it - I'm rooting for the Pats. However, and this is a big however, most of the time, whoever I root for loses... /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif