HST, not an automatic according to some

   / HST, not an automatic according to some #11  
john bud,

I think your explanation communicates best... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My first HST was hand-controlled, and it was MUCH easier to make the transition from a gear-drive tractor.

The pedal controls are what cause the confusion, since we're all used to accelerator pedals in our cars...
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some #12  
I like that analogy with the bicycle gears. My main problem is when I'm working with the truck and the tractor- and I try to jump out of the truck cab without putting the truck into Park- I never put my tractor into Park! (somedays I really wish my truck had an HST).
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some
  • Thread Starter
#13  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "Yes, my question was not as clear as it could be, but you got it it right. One thing about an HST that seems counter intuitive is the harder you push on the pedal (assume low range, FEL work, heavy load) the less actual effective work you are getting done.
Bob "


I don't understand this statement. If you press harder on the pedal, you will turn the wheels faster providing you still have the power to do it. That would mean to me that you are or at least have the potential to effectively get the work done faster. If you do not have enough power from the engine to continue to drive the wheels at a given pedal position, by backing off you again are enhancing the effectiveness by now continuing to move the tractor. What am I missing? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif )</font>

Again, I am unclear. When you state back off, that to me means lower gaer, more power to push or dig an item if the wheels are losing traction.

Don't get me wrong, the whole things confuses me (<- obviously!)
Bob
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some #14  
<font color="blue"> The pedal controls are what cause the confusion, since we're all used to accelerator pedals in our cars... </font>
Its interesting to take note of how many folks have tried my tractor out and found using the hydrostatic pedal so easy and simple and were almost instantly understanding that the harder you pushed, the more load it placed on the engine. There is a relative who never could get an understanding of how it worked. It was to him either off or on. No matter how I explained it, his answer would still come back, "I thought if I pushed harder it would give me more power" Perhaps it has something to do with his name, its Billy Bob, no kidding. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some #15  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...its Billy Bob, no kidding. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

That's not "Doctor Billy Bob" is it, _RaT_? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Sorry, Doc Bob. I just couldn't resist. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some
  • Thread Starter
#17  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( ...its Billy Bob, no kidding. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

That's not "Doctor Billy Bob" is it, _RaT_? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Sorry, Doc Bob. I just couldn't resist. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif )</font>

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif <- just kidding /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some #18  
Uh oh, so Billy Bob is a bit more common of a name then I thought. My brother in law Bob aka Billy Bob is from big ol Texas. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some #19  
Well I might as well give it a stab, and it's a basic stab at that /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Basically, an HST is a large volume hydraulic pump with a variable high pressure output that is used to spin a mechanical gear reduction transmission. Both the hydraulic and mechanical assemblys can be housed in the same unit (which is more common) or they can be in sparate housings but they have to be connected to one another and they are completely different assemblies that are totally dependant upon one another.

The engine drives the hydraulic pump and the faster the engine spins the the pump the higher the hydraulic output of the HST's pump.
Generally the output of the pump is controlled by a swash plate. There are different devices but it is the most common. Picture a butterfly valve in a tube. When it's closed it completely blocks the passageway and theres no output pressure. The more it is opened, the more of the passageway is opened up which inturn allows more volume of what ever is being transmitted through the pipe to pass through. In our case where talking about hydraulic fluid.
The swash plate of an HST works in a similar fashion but it works in a way to where the pressurized fluid can be redirected to allow for forward or reverse rotation of the driven gear transmission.

Imagine the steps/vanes in large water wheel and how the water falling from a trough above it collects in these steps/vanes which pushes down on the wheel which spins it.
The geared transmission of an HST has a similar step or vane device that is connected to the gears and when the pressureized fluid hits it, it will inturn spin the gears which inturn spins the axles etc.
The more the volume & pressure of fluid that hits these vanes, the faster it spins the gear tranny.

There is no gear reduction in the hydraulic assembly of an HST. It's job is to provide a high pressure fluid output that can be varied in both pressure and direction. Since theres no gear reduction, when the tractor encounters a hill or other obstacle and you press down harder to hopefully increase power output, what is actually happening is the preesure will start dropping due to the engines speed dropping and no matter how open the swash plate gets, the loss of pressure will slow the tractor down. The load on the engine and HST could eventually stall the engine out. Letting up on the HST in this case can actually increase the pressure enough (constricting the channel increases the pressure) to where the engine won't stall. That is why many say to let up on the HST pedal when the tractor starts to bog down.

To enable tractors with HST's to climb up inclines with heavy loads with little strain, the manufacturers devised multiple gear ranges in the mechanical gear reduction assembly of the HST. Some like my BX23 only have a hi and lo range while larger tractors have 3 or more ranges. By selecting the proper gear range before one encounters an incline etc, the tractor will have more than enough available power to carry it's load above and beyond....... Some models alow the ranges to be changed while under load, most don't though....
The hydraulic section working in concert with the mechanical section is the happy medium of this whole assembly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Since an engine on a tractor needs to maintain as constant an rpm as possible when operating certain implements, a way had to be devised to vary the speed of the tractor without varying the speed of the engine (like in an automobile). Mechanical gear reduction is the way this has traditionally been done, but the desire arose for a more constantly variable speed control, hense the HST. The tractor can go as fast or as slow as needed without having to adjust the engines rpm or change gears and also without effecting the implement it's driving.
Well my breaks over gotta get back at it,

Clear as mud? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Volfandt
 
   / HST, not an automatic according to some #20  
Volfandt, you must be an engineer. You are the first to actually explain it correctly and in a way I (also an enginner) can undersand. The problem with everyone elses analogy is they all give a torque multiplication thru gear reduction in the HST. As you stated, "There is no gear reduction in the hydraulic assembly of an HST." No gear reduction, no torgue multiplication.

My HST tractor has a 3 gear secondary transmition. If the HST had torgue multiplication. I could put the secondary tranny in high gear and drive into a dirt pile just as easily as if it was in low. It ain't going to happen. In high gear the pressure relief valve will release the pressure and give a squeling sound. In low gear it will keep going untill the wheels spin.
 

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