HST Transmission

[cowboydoc]

I can pretty much guarantee you that if you run that hydro for 24 hours pulling a ripper and run the 7820 pulling the ripper you are going to see a significant temperature difference. If you have some guys running them with only 80-100 cows then they aren't going to be out farming thousands of acres. If you just use one to putt around the farm moving haybale and doing some occasional fieldwork for a few hours here and there it probably would hold up. But I guarantee you put that hydro out on a big ripper or planter and it will not last very long. And I would never own one of them for the safety issues alone. Also are you sure the 1066 was a true hydro? I didn't think they put a true hydro in the 1066. I thought that was the 1026. I also find it pretty hard to believe that unless there were some modifications done that the 115 hp pto would run 170 pto hp. The only way that is going to happen is with some serious modification because it sure didn't run from the factory that way.

 

[art]

Okay so it takes someone with some knowledge a little mechanical skill a screwdriver 7/16 socket and 5 minutes, they go to 225hp and then the pump runs out. So what's your point. The 1026-1026 area the same hydro's. On a planter no problem,probably less broken pieces! The ripper nobody ever said it was meant to do that. The heat on a hydro is the same off the 7800 transmission! They all are pushing the temperature to 200 plus degree's today. The hydro was not intended to do tillage. The straight gear drive is the most efficient there is to do that job.

 

[cowboydoc]

"Cowboydoc, youare wrong on the reliability of the hydro's on the farm. We have farms that are still using them and have used them for tillage work and they are frustrated as they can't purchase new ones"

"The hydro was not intended to do tillage. The straight gear drive is the most efficient there is to do that job."

Well which is it art? The above are your own words. You tell me I'm full of it because I say the hydro can't hold up to tillage. Then you argue with me and say the hydro wasn't meant to do tillage which is what I said in the first place. And if it isn't meant to do tillage what in the world do you need a 170 hp tractor for to haul around haybales? I can do that with my 4600. And yes they both may have the same operating temperature, which I doubt because the 7820 has a complete separate cooling system for the transmission and the 1066 doesnt, but the hydro will overheat where that 7820 will run as many days as you want her to without ever overheating. For that matter so will a 1066 gear tractor. The gear 1066 is a great old tractor. But that hydro is junk for doing serious farming. It won't hold up and you'll be lucky to get a half a days work before it's overheated.
And if you agree that it won't even pull a ripper then why in the heck would you want one if you're talking about a real farmer?

 

[slowrev]

Art,
A 1066 with that kind of HP and wont pull a ripper ???

 

[art]

I didn't say it wouldn't. I wouldn't rate a 1066 hydro in tillage any higher then a 966 gear drive when stock. They used to rate tractors by drawbar horsepower and if you pull up the specs are about the same. The hydro took the tractors to 4000 hours plus on the original rubber even on our hills. A gear drive would get 2000 hours and we all know about the clutches and brake wear. But to hook two identical choppers behind a gear drive and a hydro that the hydro ran the normal ten horse power less and the gear wasn't even a match for the hydro's performance. Watched that in Tifton Georgia the first time. Seen it done several times since.

 

[art]

Cowboydoc, my neighbor is the one with the hydro 1066. For the sake of it I made a call to him this evening on the way home. I did make a mistake as his tractor has over 9300 hours on it now. There aren't to many farmers in our area that can pull deep tills as most of it is on potential quarry ground but he does do about forty acres a year with a 9 shank chisel plow. He pulls 5-18' bottoms with it and still prefers it over his 1586 knowing that the 1586 is a better puller for tillage and doesn't burn as much fuel. The 1066 is on there 1275 gehl chopper all summer a minimum of six hours a day and he will tell you that the 1066 seems to have quite an edge over the 1586 on the chopper for speed. The 1586 also runs at 175 horse on the dyno. His son as well as the dad would like another one as they would like one for the mower too. The hydro has it's place as well as the gear. The part you are blowing out of purportion that I do have offence to is the constant power loss thing you keep bringing up and the heat. If you would like I can warm his tractor up as he uses it for plowing snow tomorrow as well as the used JD7800 if it will start and take temp readings, will you be ready for the results? As I said before there is little or no difference in the temp on these trannys when used proper. There is no perfect piece for every job! Period.

 

[snowbound]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Same reason you see hst in the backhoes and big loaders for construction equipment. They don't have a constant big load on the transmission like you would farming.)</font>

There's no reason I know of you can't design an HST for a constant load requiring torque. They're making a lot of log skidders with HST now and dragging logs around is not exactly light work.

 

[Old_Hickory]

Amen to the dragging logs,I have been doing some heavy timbering with my JD 4400 hydro and I am pulling logs 20' in length and 24" to 28" in diameter up hills etc for as far as 1 1/2 miles and my hydro has not over heated.I have been working on this project since July 2003,I am having to use the steering brakes to scratch and claw my way of the hills at 20% to 25 % grade. There are places I have had the tractor in mud that actually had the front axle covered and I am sitting there spinning and trying to work my way through the mess. No over heating problems.

 

[cowboydoc]

Hickory,

How would you even know if your hydro overheated? You don't even have a temp. gauge on it. And you just made my point as well. Yes you may use the tractor with a load for 30 minutes, an hour maybe with a CONSTANT load. Then you are stopped trying to claw up the hill. Then you get to the top and you spend time unhooking and driving around unloaded. This allows the hydro time to cool off. I think if you put a temp. gauge on your transmission you would see the spikes in temp. when you're under a constant heavy load. And also what gear are you in? But the point is you are working the tractor, then not working it, working it again, etc. This gives the hydro time to cool off. You are not hooking that tractor to it's maximum towing weight and driving with that constant load at a constant speed for with smoke coming out the stacks for 16 hours straight.

Art,

If you want to use one example of a guy plowing 40 acres that probably took 2-4 hours to do then my point is already made. If all you did was hook a chopper to it and plowed 40 acres once a year and used it for chores the rest of the time it might last. But that is the whole problem with these conversations in relation to hydro, the cheaper tractors, etc. I have yet to meet one guy on here that REALLY farms. You hook my 20' disc ripper on that 1066 and let's see how long it lasts. My 4430 pulls it all day and night long and never even raises the transmission temp. I can guarantee you that will not happen on that 1066 hydro. Take the gear 1066 and you bet it could probably do about as good if it was turned up. You though talk about all this stuff from the standpoint of gentleman farmers, guys that only use their tractor maybe 300-500 hours a year at the very most, only have from 1-200 acres. Everything talked about probably will work for that. Heck when I started out I had 25 acres and used a 40 year old Massey Ferguson Super 90. It did the job and I could go on about it being the same thing you're claiming with the 1066. But the truth is that tractor wouldn't have held up for a week doing the kind of farming I do now. And that's not even addressing the safety issues of those older tractors, especially the hydros.

As far as designing a hydro that will work. I'm sure they could but are guys going to pay for it. The IVT option on the JD's is $14,000. And most farmers remember the International hydro mess. No matter what Art says it was a failure. To say it flopped and left a bad taste in farmers mouths to ever try a hydro again is an understatement. If the IVT and some of these other pseudo hydro's go over well then you probably will see a return of hydros to the higher hp tractors.

 

[BillyP]

Well Doc, I'll give you an example of an HST at work.

I've tilled 6 to 8 hours straight, in 90 to 100+ degree weather. Done this numerous times. I'll admit, I don't have a clue to what temp the HST reaches but my feet sit right above it.

This is on a JD 4610 eHydro, pulling a Preifert Offset Litter Saver with the tailgate open about 4". The depth of the litter runs around 6" +/-. Engine RPMs set at 21 to 2,200, toggle between medium and low range.

By the way, this is in reference to your reply to Old Hickory's post.