HST vs. Gear

wushaw · Jan 11, 2006

I haven't tried it yet but on my L2800HST I should be able to use the cruise control lever to control speed and unlatch the brake pedals for differental braking.
The B7500 I had would have been a little less controlable with the cruise lever mounted on the dash but I'm sure dooable.

755inNY · Jan 11, 2006

Some of the sub 30 hp models have only one brake pedal. Many of them have the hydro pedal and brake pedals on the same side... 

daTeacha,

So the use of turning brakes has absolutely nothing to do with HST. It is a result of the braking system design. The solution is easy. Buy a tractor that is designed properly. Please don't bash HST because there are tractor manufacturer's that either retain the brake (and differential lock) position of their gear tractors or who don't feel their customers need differential braking and therefore only offer a single brake pedal. There are manufacturer's that do it right. Even in the sub 30 hp tractors.

Jeff

daTeacha · Jan 12, 2006

Jeff -- I don't think saying that HST is not something useful for the way I use a tractor is "bashing", it's just stating my then current opinion which is part of deciding which tractor to get when I finally have the funds to do so.

If you would read the entire thread, you'd see that I learned from this discussion that not all HST's are created equal and that I intend to drive some more tractors. I think that's what this forum is all about -- learning stuff the dealership boys don't tell, either because the customer is too ignorant (and I mean lacking in information, not stupid, so I'm not flaming anyone here) to ask the right questions, or the sales guy does not know all the ins and outs of the various equipment out there.

My tractor is broken in such a way that it is permanently in 4wd, yet I can and do use the steering brakes effectively when on soft dirt, snow, ice, or sheep/donkey dung. I can lock either rear, pivot on that tire, and maneuver the bucket or blade where I want it to be next. I can also have the front end up in the air with the weight bearing on the bucket to drag barnyard crud backwards and steer with the rear brakes while doing so. In other words, I use the steering brake a lot and it is something I want to be able to do with my next tractor.

I have driven a couple of HSTs and tried using the steering brakes in 4wd on gravel or soft turf. The ones I have driven stopped moving forward when I hit either single brake pedal. At least one (Case DX26??) shut off the cruise control. The Deere needed a lot of pressure on both the brake and HST pedal to move. Based on those experiences, it never occured to me that other systems were different, and the sales guys never pointed it out when I was asking about the functionality of the turning brakes on a particular model. One guy didn't know you had to sit on a particluar tractor to start it. The excuse they give is that there are so many brands and models and so many differences that they can't know everything.

When I learned in this thread that some systems allow differential braking with an HST, I noted it and expressed the need to visit and drive some more tractors. If that's what you call bashing, so be it. I call it learning, and hope to continue the process until I die.

yellowandbeige · Jan 12, 2006

Hello to everyone,
I have been lurking for some time but enjoying all the knowledge represented here.

As far as the great debate of hydro vs gears go I have to add my experience.
My first tractor two years ago was a hydro 4x4 20 horse with a loader, diff lock, cruise control,power stearing, and more bells and whistles than I needed. That tractor at 206 hrs lost the hydro and It was a 5,000.00 dollar fix.
The dealer went to bat for me even though there was no warranty and I bought it used from him. He took it down to a 2,200.00 dollar trans replacement.
Aside from this bad experience I was constantly aware that I ran out of transmision long before I ran out of engine.

Now I have just traded and have a shuttle shift 8x8 transmision that puts MOST of the power to the ground and I am much more satisfied with this tractor than the hydro even though I have NOTHING bad to say about hydro transmisions.

Just wanted to say there is at least one person that after having a hydro went to gears.

Spencer

755inNY · Jan 12, 2006

If you would read the entire thread, you'd see that I learned from this discussion that not all HST's are created equal and that I intend to drive some more tractors. 

daTeacha,

I apologize. I read too much into your intial post. I did read the entire thread but not in the way you intended.

Lets keep learning /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jeff

RoyJackson · Jan 12, 2006

Hydro is fine...I'm just not willing to pay the extra $1500-$2500 (best and worst case scenarios I've seen). Of course, I buy used tractors. One of the machines I looked at (not real seriously though) was a Deere 855...about as robust a machine as one can buy. I just hankered for a gear drive, that's all... Can't say I've any regrets...as far as resale, my observations are hydros aren't any better or worse then geared machines as a percentage of the original prices. Another machine was a Deere 755...probably the nicest used tractor I ever looked at (other then the 790 I ended up with), but I wanted more horsepower.

I got to admit, even when i bought the 790 I was basically just tire kicking on the internet (Machinefinder.com).

wolc123 · Jan 12, 2006

You provide us with a good example of how to use a hydro within its limitations with your 50 hp on a 2-bottom plow. As you know, I used a gear that was not quite half that hp on a nearly identical plow. Let me go thru some numbers for you to show why a gear makes more sense for those using ground engageing equipment. First, as we have shown by our two cases, you may need about double the hp to do the same job. A new 50 hp runs about $10k-15k more than a 25. Next, tack on another $1500-2500 for the trans, $100/yr increased maint. costs, $2000 more for trans overhaul if required and about 25% higher fuel costs and you can see where the hydro will quickly send someone like me, who has to plow more than 20 acres each spring, to the poorhouse. I certainly don't mean to offend you or bash hydro's, they definitely have a place: Lawnmowing (a lot better than gear), Loader work (quite a bit better), Landscaping (better), Ladies (they definitely prefer hydro's), and Lazy folks (less effort required without the clutching and shifting.

Dargo · Jan 12, 2006

No problem, let's see your magically powerful 25 hp gear tractor turn my 84" tiller at 8" deep all day long. Heck, let's see it turn that tiller for 8' in my heavy clay soil. It won't happen. How about running my 96" finish mower in wet heavy grass?! It won't happen! Increased maintenance costs; I'm not buying that - your opinion. A transmission overhaul; HA! I'm certainly not buying that even a little!! Twenty five percent more fuel consumption? Ha! Why don't we just go for 95% more?! Oh, oh, my favorite; apparently real men prefer gear tractors, hydros are for women! Ha, ha, ha! I could go on, but you have already lost any credibility with me. Great, you like your gear drive. Just don't make a fool of yourself touting your opinions as if they were fact to try to justify yourself. Do yourself a favor and re-read my posts. You will see that I like gear tractors. I was almost as ignorant of hydro tractors as you before I was open minded enough to try one.

Sorry, I can honestly say that I've simply just lost interest in this discussion when it becomes this ridiculous. I'm going to step outside and watch the cows jump over the moon. Hopefully I won't catch my skirt on the fence on my way out.

RedRocker · Jan 13, 2006

( I certainly don't mean to offend you or bash hydro's, they definitely have a place: Lawnmowing (a lot better than gear), Loader work (quite a bit better), Landscaping (better), Ladies (they definitely prefer hydro's), and Lazy folks (less effort required without the clutching and shifting. )

Well of course not, Lazy girly men would never take offense at such a well thought out statement. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Jan 13, 2006

Once again the hottest topic on TBN, Gear VS. Hydro, takes a mean turn... if everyone would just kiss and make up, we can continue... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

It is pretty clear that there is a gear camp and a hydro camp and then there are the rest of the folks that realize you should purchase a tractor based on your needs and preferences. Once the name calling, choice bashing starts, the topic changes from informative to antagonistic. Let's keep it on the informative side, please. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif