Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right.

[Scooby074]

Jeff: It wasnt just a guess, i follow auto issues pretty closely. Honestly im surprised its gone from vapourware to "production". For a company to put all its hopes on one vehicle or type of propulsion is stupid. This is essentially what GM did pre bankruptcy( IE: concentrate on building large high margin vehicles, and how did that work out?)

Gm is trying to reinvent themselves, going as far as discussing changing the background colour on their logos from blue to green. Slapping Hybrid badges on a Yukon that gets 22MPG isnt green. Thats what i mean when i say that the Volt was doomed. GM doesnt get it.

actually according to the EPA the volts mileage will be closer to 48MPG

Quote : The straightforward calculation gives the Volt an EPA fuel-consumption rating somewhere north of 100 mpg. But the EPA apparently wants to certify the Volt differently, insisting it finishes the test with the batteries close to full charge. That drops the calculated fuel consumption to just under 48 mpg, because the internal-combustion engine would have to be run essentially all the time to keep the batteries near full charge.

As far as toyota CEO Salary and CAR's reasearch goes, i have to question that. No doubt that the CEO of toyota enjoy perks, but so do the CEO's of the big 3. I wonder about CAR's neutrality in the issue, because any reports ive read that were authored by them were very pro-detroit.

Fact is Toyots's in a stronger position than GM and didnt go bankrupt. They have negotiated reasonable contracts with employees. From what ive read the employees of the Japanese manufacturers have no complaints about their working conditions. Has there ever been a strike by employees of a Japanese manufacturer in North America? Throw in that their CEO gets paid much less and to me thats good management.

MikePA: And who defines reasonable?..... Toyota...Apparently

 

[jdbower]

Jeff: It wasnt just a guess, i follow auto issues pretty closely.

I still argue that the amount of progress made (and the continuing, albeit belated, progress of the Tesla) simply made it a high risk and even if it would have been a loss leader it would have helped ease the image that American cars are all gas guzzlers, but hindsight is 20-20.

actually according to the EPA the volts mileage will be closer to 48MPG

In fairness, neither is a valid calculation. But the use of "miles per gallon" has been broken since they offered different grades of gas. A 35mpg Mercedes costs more to run than a 35mpg Toyota because the former needs 91 octane and the latter can run on the cheap stuff. Throw in diesel and you've got an even worse mix since the price of midgrade tends to follow the price of regular closely while diesel fluctuates at its own level. For my driving, a Volt would never need a fillup and gets infinite miles to the gallon, but that doesn't take into account the cost (monetary, environmental, and otherwise) of my home power. Likewise measuring an electric car (or even a plug-in hybrid) using the same standards as a traditional car or hybrid skews the numbers too far in the opposite direction, if I wanted to run exclusively on gas I wouldn't waste my time getting a plug-in model. If I choose to give my money to solar panel manufacturers or a nuclear power plant or a cheap coal plant instead of the oil company there should be a way to adequately show how much gas I'd use in a typical scenario in addition to the net cost of ownership.

No doubt that the CEO of toyota enjoy perks, but so do the CEO's of the big 3.

Yes, but the crux of the quote is not to imply that Toyota execs get perks and Big 3 execs don't, it's that Big 3 execs have to report the value of these perks while Toyota execs don't. With the possible exception of employees (it's hard to accurately report a chauffeur or a secretary) that $14.3M Wagoner got includes all the houses and golf memberships GM may have given him. The $1M the Toyota exec got doesn't include any of that.

While Toyota (and most companies) is in a better position than GM, I don't know that there in as good a position as Ford. In 2007 Ford CEO Alan Mulally received $2 million in base salary, a $4 million bonus and more than $11 million of stock and options for a total of $17M - more than GM and Ford is doing much better. If they gave Wagoner a $3M raise imagine how well GM would be doing now. Toyota, by contrast, also needed a government loan:
Toyota Financial Services seeks 2 billion dollars in financial aid : Business

I'm not sure where you're getting that Toyota workers are happy, they may not be as entitled as GM's workers but they're hoping to improve. But the fact that at least the KY plant isn't union should be a big hint as to why they haven't gone on strike:
In Kentucky, Toyota Faces Union Rumblings - washingtonpost.com

 

[Dargo]

I'm not sure where you're getting that Toyota workers are happy, they may not be as entitled as GM's workers but they're hoping to improve. But the fact that at least the KY plant isn't union should be a big hint as to why they haven't gone on strike:
In Kentucky, Toyota Faces Union Rumblings - washingtonpost.com

The key to that entire 2 year old article is this quote "The United Auto Workers has launched a big new push to organize the plant, trying to capitalize on fears of lower pay, outsourcing of jobs and on Toyota's treatment of injured workers."

It's all a push and fear mongering by the UAW trying to recruit new members to pay union dues. I know a dozen or two people who work at the Princeton, IN Toyota plant and they are completely fine with Toyota. They say that they always see one or two workers who have been 'brainwashed' by the UAW who try to push the UAW on the workers there, but nobody pays much attention to them. If I was Toyota, I'd fire them for trying to bring in a corrupt union and sabotage the operation.

 

[Tom_H]

As far as executive bonuses, apparently AIG has asked the govt. to provide "political cover" as it plans to pass out another round of bonuses, $235 million this time. AIG stocks fell by 25% as soon as this was announced.

Also, GM emerges from bankruptcy with the CEO promising a lean and agressive company. One new sales tack: selling its cars on eBay!

 

[riptides]

....selling its cars on eBay!

Makes one wonder about the possibilities.... NOT.....

 

[Scooby074]

Jeff: i agree MPG isnt an accurate way to measure hybrids. Its going to be hard to come up with an accurate test, maybe carbon dioxide emissions (like europe)? I Dont know.

Tesla is always going to be a niche player. I do give them credit though. Even jeremy clarkson liked it (dont get me started on the whole top gear episode where they tested it, the test wasnt fairly portraied)

I think that pure electrics make much more sense then hybrids as a commuter car, Check out the Think. Maybe some sort of car sharing program for commuter electrics would work?

Personally,I think whats going to kill the hybrid "revolution" will be the batteries. Just wait till the first gen hybrids need a 10k battery replacement in 8-10 years. I think the shine will wear off them pretty quick.

Thats where my idea of the electric car sharing program would shine. You basically pay a lease or membership fee and the company looks after the maintenance.

For longer distance travel i like hydrogen as a fuel source. If the hydrogen was generated by nuclear power instead of splitting hydrocarbons it would be a truly green fuel with no carbon emissions.

On CEO compensation, the 13 million in the difference between Wagoneer and Toyota's CEO sure would buy alot of golf memberships. I still say that Toyota is running a leaner ship, and thats why they havent felt the squeeze is bad. Just look at their dealer structure, they have 1/2 or maybe less of the dealers that GM has.

The loan that toyota was seeking in your link was for toyota financial, not toyota motor. It was to offset the heavy loses they took in north america. Alot of which came from defaults which is no real fault of their own.

BUT... if i was running toyota motor you better believe i d have my hand out. Giving what 50 Billion? to GM sure gives them a competitive advantage and Id want my cut.

 

[2manyrocks]

It never does. What is so hard to understand about the concept you are paid what someone is willing to pay you? The question, "Is Simon Cowell worth $144 million?" is irrelevant. $144 million is what someone is willing to pay him.

Compensation is not supposed to be completely arbitrary. The board of directors are legally responsible to hire CEO's at a level of compensation that is reasonable and in the best interest of the stockholders. You can find an appraiser to put an inflated value on an item of property, and apparently you can do the same with CEO compensation, but the rest of us don't have to believe that it is anywhere reasonable or an appropriate level of compensation.

 

[MikePA]

Compensation is not supposed to be completely arbitrary. The board of directors are legally responsible to hire CEO's at a level of compensation that is reasonable and in the best interest of the stockholders.

The only time someone's pay is arbitrary is when it's set by a union contract where everyone in a certain position makes the same pay whether they are worth it or not. In every other situation, compensation is set at a level to attract the right person to fill the job, it's never set at a level that's reasonable or in the best interests of the stockholders. What's in the best interests of the stockholders is to fill the position with a qualified applicant.

You can find an appraiser to put an inflated value on an item of property, and apparently you can do the same with CEO compensation, but the rest of us don't have to believe that it is anywhere reasonable or an appropriate level of compensation.

Appraising property is an irrelevant and incorrect analogy and, as I already mentioned, 'reasonable and appropriate' are irrelevant as well.

Compensation is set at a level to attract the right person for the job, whether the position is an IT project manager, a short stop, your job, or a CEO, i.e., any position except union positions where compensation is defined by a contract.

Sorry if you don't like these facts.

 

[Chuck52]

Bottom line: CEO greed is the American Way. Union greed is socialism. Learn it. Know it. Live it.

Chuck

 

[dmccarty]

If I own a company and I get to a point that I want to hire someone to run the company, why does anyone care what I pay my new employee?

The CEO is paid too much argument seems to only apply to companies that are owned via stock. Or do we limit what anyone can be paid at any business?

By the way, I think many CEOs are over paid along with many actors, musicians, a ball players.

But who gets to set what they are worth?

The cost to hire me is done by my skills, how needed are those skills, and are the skills in demand. Like it or not that is true for CEOs or people chasing after a little ball with a stick...

Later,
Dan