HVAC question on used parts

[Richard]

Anyone willing to suggest brands without this turning into a competition?

I've got a friend (in another state) who works for Carrier Frig-sys or something goofy like that. He works for their commercial side that deals with trucks, busses, things on the move.

Anyways, he said that he's got a good friend on the residential side who is a vendor for Carrier... and they installed a Rheem in his (my friends) home.

This was suggesting to me that although he had the Carrier brand available to him, they felt the Rheem was better.

??

Also... for a system say, 3 1/2 4 tons of capacity (I think that's how they're measured?) any speculation on costs?

I know it depends, so let me put it differently... would a 3 1/2 ton system (compressor and handler ONLY, let's presume plumbing is ok for simplicity). Would a 3 1/2 ton system cost under $5K? $7.5K? $10K?

Not trying to pin anyone down...just trying to get a flavor of reality so I don't faint when I finally get to talking to them.

 

[MarkV]

Richard I am not in the business yet in a similar situation. I have been lead to believe that for a new high efficiently unit that is eligible for the tax rebate I should plan in the 7.5K range. If my/your duct work needs modifying the price would of course be higher.

MarkV

 

[kenmac]

I know Sigarms and Kenmac are HVAC pro's so am I correct that as of next year you can no longer buy new R22 systems, EPA thing? Also when switching freon types don't you also have to change the air handler unit to be compatible?

Richard there are some government rebates currently available, up to $1500, for new energy efficient units with the newer type of freon. If parts are unavailable for your unit now and it has been an on going problem is it worth putting more money in it and possibly missing the rebate program?

MarkV

Production of R22 is to end in 2010.. There is no telling how much is stored up in a wearhouse somewhere... You will still be able to purchase ( at some price ).. The newer refrigerant has nothing to do with the rebate... It must meet certain EER.. You have to replace the evap. Coil..Not air handler.. To meet the eer to get the rebate .. You will have to go with a variable speed air handler... You may spend $6000.00 - $7000.00 + + to get $1500.00 rebate...



Richard,,, Don't get so hung up on brands...you can buy a $10,000.00 system but, If the install isn't correct . You have wasted your $... Hire someone /company that has a good reputation... Also I haven't had any troubles with the systems that I have installed flushing the Refrigerant lines instead of replacing them

 

[MarkV]

Production of R22 is to end in 2010.. There is no telling how much is stored up in a wearhouse somewhere... You will still be able to purchase ( at some price ).. The newer refrigerant has nothing to do with the rebate... It must meet certain EER.. You have to replace the evap. Coil..Not air handler.. To meet the eer to get the rebate .. You will have to go with a variable speed air handler... You may spend $6000.00 - $7000.00 + + to get $1500.00 rebate...

Thanks Ken, great information. I thought it had to do with the freon rather than the EER.

I have two properties that are due for new units. In my MIL case she needs two new heat pumps and can fix her R22 systems for more or less half the price of converting to R410A. She will most likely be in the house for less than 5 years. Do you think it is worth the investment?

We are also in need for a complete new system in our house and are thinking high efficiently for our anticipated 15 years. Any thoughts on what to look for?

Thanks,
MarkV

 

[Sigarms]

I know Sigarms and Kenmac are HVAC pro's

Sincere thanks for the compliment, but I'm far from a pro. I've just been blessed with being able to work with people who are much smarter than myself.

By lineset, do you mean the copper tubing connecting the air handler to the compressor outside?

Yes.

I'm asking because the guy that was out on Friday said if the new stuff was put in, it was critical that it was VERY airtight (special tool to measure the vacume, compared to old system) and they would also purge/wash the connecting lines because if you mixed the two "freons" they would turn into some kind of GOO inside the line.

He was probably refering to a Vacuum gauge, which measures in microns. To pull a good vaccum in a system, you want to be at least under 500 microns. This can take time, which can cost a contractor money. One reason for a good vacuum is to pull moisture out of the lines.

Your statement above is suggestive of this same thing... one bad reality... my connecting lines run through flooring AND walls for a portion of their run and I don't know that it could be easily replaced without a major major issue inside.

I don't want to tell you this, but this is a worse case scenerio. However, as long as you don't have mulitple bends in the copper tubing with "weird" angles, a good "flush" in the lines should suffice. However, a good contractor will cover his butt and mention this in his proposal. This is one reason why pulling a good vacuum is VERY critical. Actually, a responsible contractor will pull mulitple vacuums.

Production of R22 is to end in 2010.. There is no telling how much is stored up in a wearhouse somewhere... You will still be able to purchase ( at some price )..

There is actually legislation that may halt all sales of R22 past 2010. It has many people worried for many reasons.

You will have to go with a variable speed air handler...

Actually, you don't. The X-13 motor actually out performs the ECM motor (variable speed) and will meet the tax rebate requirements with those manufacturers who use this motor in their air handlers, and actually uses less energy than the ECM motor. However, with the X-13 motor, you don't have the option of replacing only the module (as you do with the ECM motor), and years down the road, the X-13 probably will end up costing you more in replacement costs.

Richard,,, Don't get so hung up on brands...

I agree wholeheartedly.

Anyways, he said that he's got a good friend on the residential side who is a vendor for Carrier... and they installed a Rheem in his (my friends) home.

Look at manufacturers who are offering rebates along with equipment who meet the tax credit criteria. You may pay a little more, but it may be well worth it, particularly going with a two stage compressor for humidity control and comfort.



The above is what you should expect from any HVAC contractor. I was lucky enough that it was at my house at 11:30 PM

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Do a manual J calculation for sizing. The HVAC-CALC that someone referenced works good at a good price.

If you plan on being in the house awhile, consider geothermal. This will be the lowest cost to operate, but generally will cost more to install.

Before you begin, make sure you get a good opinion on the existing unit. I had a unit go "bad" on me once, two guys insisted the compressor was stuck and I needed to replace. The 3rd guy found a wire off, which was the problem. It ran fine until the day I moved...

 

[PAGUY]

Question concerning line set.

Does the distance from condenser to evaporator have an affect on the efficiency of a unit? What I mean is that if the line runs up the side of your house from the condenser and then thru an attic area to the evaporator a distance of say 60 to 70 ft. The reason for the distance was to put the condenser in the back of the house instead of the side of the house that the evaporator is located in the attic.

 

[Sigarms]

Do a manual J calculation for sizing.

Don't forget a manual D as well.

There is actually legislation that may halt all sales of R22 past 2010

I meant to say the sales of equipment bearing R22, not the refer itself.

Does the distance from condenser to evaporator have an affect on the efficiency of a unit?

More than just the effieciency. Biggest variable per this topic is verticle rise, then bends (90's) in the line. Most manufacturers have a set "charge" per length, and you have to adjust the "charge" (amount of refer. in the system) accordingly to the length. Some manufacturers even have in thier instal manual to call their tech department on extreme lengths.

 

[Richard]

I've got some new questions that are not related to salvaging the old parts, so I'm going to start an HVAC II thread...just wanted to say in case someone came here instead.

 

[Willl]

It's not the brand, it's the install.