HVAC

[kenmac]

For all of you out there that are considering a new HVAC system


VRF SYSTEM MARKET[/URL] IS EXPECTED TO GROW AT A CAGR OF 12.43% BETWEEN 2017 AND 2023. IT IS PROJECTED TO BE WORTH USD 22.79 BILLION BY 2023.[/h]The rapid growth of the VRF system market can be attributed to various factors such as technological advancements, high energy efficiency, easy installation, low global warming potential, and booming commercial building construction sector.
Heat pump VRF systems held the largest market share in 2016
Among various VRF systems, the heat pump is projected to lead the VRF system market during the forecast period. The growing need for energy-efficient technology compared to conventional air- conditioning systems is anticipated to drive the growth of the VRF system market during the forecast period. In addition, the cost-effective installation of VRF systems and energy saving potential are also anticipated to increase the demand for VRF systems.
Commercial application accounted for the largest share of the VRF system market in 2016
The commercial application is likely to hold the largest share of the VRF system market during the forecast period owing to of the growing construction industry and easy installation of VRF systems. The ability to respond to fluctuations in space load conditions, flexibility and reliability of VRF systems lead to the high adoption of these systems for residential and commercial applications.
VRF system market in North America expected to grow at the highest CAGR during forecast period
The VRF system market in North America is expected to grow at the highest CAGR between 2017 and 2023. The major factors driving the growth of the North American VRF system market are technological advancements, high energy efficiency, easy installation, low global warming potential, and booming commercial building construction sector. Moreover, increased awareness among building owners regarding various benefits associated with VRF technologies is also expected to boost the growth of the VRF system market in this region during the forecast period.
The report profiles key players such as Daikin Industries (Japan), Mitsubishi Electric (Japan), Hitachi (Japan), Midea Group (China), United Technologies (US), Samsung Electronics (South Korea), Panasonic (Japan), Lennox International (US) and Ingersoll Rand (Ireland), Fujitsu General (Japan), and LG Electronics (South Korea) operating in the VRF system market.

 

[Sigarms]

Ken

What is your definition of a VRF system?

The biggest thing holding it back in the US IMO is current up front costs and utilizing existing ductwork.

Currently I have 3 complete seperate HVAC systems in my home. Due to the layout of the house and exisiting ductwork, going to replace it with a conventional system.

One thing no one talks about is parts. Within the last 3 months I had to replace two indoor units and one outdoor unit from two different mini split manufacturers becuase the parts weren't availble for months as they were waiting for them to come in from overseas. Still remember when the same thing happen about 20 years ago as they were tracking the boat from Japan.

Mini splits are great for the right application....

Oh, if I remember correctly, you're getting your "VRF" system for free?

 

[RalphVa]

I had to look it up. Think you're talking about ductless heat pumps systems?

I've been around them in Tokyo and other places in Japan. Utterly silent beside the outdoor units. This is the case for our Fujitsu unit outside that services 2 inside units here in the basement. Even the indoor parts hardly make any sound. This system also is the most efficient of the 3 that we have, and the other 2 are conventional Carrier heat pumps.

Each outdoor unit can be sized to handle up to 7 indoor ones. You just route the refrigerant/heatant around to various indoor units instead of to just one place in an ducted in installation.

Ralph

 

[Sigarms]

I had to look it up. Think you're talking about ductless heat pumps systems?

I've been around them in Tokyo and other places in Japan. Utterly silent beside the outdoor units. This is the case for our Fujitsu unit outside that services 2 inside units here in the basement. Even the indoor parts hardly make any sound. This system also is the most efficient of the 3 that we have, and the other 2 are conventional Carrier heat pumps.

Each outdoor unit can be sized to handle up to 7 indoor ones. You just route the refrigerant/heatant around to various indoor units instead of to just one place in an ducted in installation.

Ralph

Fujitsu does not make a single phase VRF in a heat pump system sold in the United States (talking with techs who have been to Japan working for Fujitsu, same answer on their end as far as what's being sold there).

This is where the "meaning" of the words come into play as to what is actually being used.

 

[kenmac]

Ken

What is your definition of a VRF system?

The biggest thing holding it back in the US IMO is current up front costs and utilizing existing ductwork.

Currently I have 3 complete seperate HVAC systems in my home. Due to the layout of the house and exisiting ductwork, going to replace it with a conventional system.

One thing no one talks about is parts. Within the last 3 months I had to replace two indoor units and one outdoor unit from two different mini split manufacturers becuase the parts weren't availble for months as they were waiting for them to come in from overseas. Still remember when the same thing happen about 20 years ago as they were tracking the boat from Japan.

Mini splits are great for the right application....

Oh, if I remember correctly, you're getting your "VRF" system for free?

I'm sure you know what the definition is

V=variable R=refrigerant F= flow

It enables you to do things that can't be done with a normal Mini split. You can run the refrigerant lines longer as the metering takes place at the coil instead of the condenser

As I have said, I'm using the ducted system. The AH is within 2 inches of my old Trane AH.

I'll lose a little efficiency over the normal style system, but it will very minimal work to install.

Reason I'm not using one from someone else is. I just don't think they are as well made
Another is. The low cost with the system I'll be installing.

You know, back in the 70's people talked about parts being hard to get for those import vehicles.
Well, today, those parts aren't really an issue.

Give them a little time. Parts won't be an issue.
My brother (in Texas) installed one in his home about 2.5 yrs ago. He hasn't had a single issue with his system.

He is about to get one of these newer systems for the same price.

What I was told, the newer units have a hot gas by pass that is suppose to be good to around -30 ,or so. No need for those bad heat strips

No way I would go back with a conventional HP system

 

[Sigarms]

I'm sure you know what the definition is

V=variable R=refrigerant F= flow

Ken

Will you be able to heat and cool simultaneously using multiple indoor heads?

I thought in the past you said you were getting a ducted (air handler) one to one mini split which really isn't a VRF system IMO.

The reality is you can currently get a duct one to one system from Carrier, Trane, Rheem and York. Out of these mentioned, I've used two personally and took measurements myself directly. No strip heat needed down to 3 degree outside air temp (low as I've measured it so far) and air register temperature over 105 degrees (in the "old days" R22 heat pump system would get you around 98 degree air which seemed cold because it was you body temp or slightly lower, not anymore).

As far as the parts I needed, both were from Japanese manufacturers who have been selling mini splits in the US for at least the last 25 years and have a great repuation. It was nice that they replace the equipment for 2-3 year old equipment that needed a part, but when they do that, it scares me.

I'm just trying to understand exactly what your putting in. Can you explain the system in detail, including how many indoor heads, ducted, non ducted, branch box, headers...

 

[kenmac]

It is a ducted unit. So, no, I won't be heating one room while cooling another room

It is a VRF unit, But I really won't be using is as it would normally be used.
Reason I'm not using carrier, trane, Rheem , is IMO, think this unit is superior to those units ..
And best part is, All I have to provide is the installation.



If it helps, It will be somewhat similar to this system. Except the AH is much different than this one


LG L2H48D24240000-A Concealed Duct 2-Zone System - 48,000 BTU Outdoor - 24k + 24k Indoor - 17.5 SEER

 

[jaxs]

:scratchchin::reading::jaded:

 

[Sigarms]

It is a ducted unit. So, no, I won't be heating one room while cooling another room

It is a VRF unit, But I really won't be using is as it would normally be used.
Reason I'm not using carrier, trane, Rheem , is IMO, think this unit is superior to those units ..
And best part is, All I have to provide is the installation.



If it helps, It will be somewhat similar to this system. Except the AH is much different than this one


LG L2H48D24240000-A Concealed Duct 2-Zone System - 48,000 BTU Outdoor - 24k + 24k Indoor - 17.5 SEER

In all our discussions of what you will be using, you've never given me the actual model numbers on both units:confused2: I'm sincerely curious becase I don't normally deal with LG for various reasons but would like to see what they have to offer.

That said, if you're using a ducted unit, just ensure that you ductwork has had a leak test and know what needs to be taken care. Sure you know, but hook up a 17.5 SEER ducted air handler unit to exisiting older ductwork, and right from the get go you could actually be getting 10 SEER.

 

[kenmac]

this .....Gree VRF GMV5 Heat Pump 48 Btu | rh newtons is more like that unit I will be installing.

At this time, I don't have any model numbers, or much tech info.
When the units arrive, I will post those numbers for you

The unit is rated @20 seer non dutced
Rated @ 16.5 seer ducted

My duct is round all joints are taped and also have mastic