Hydraulic auger problem

[trctr155]

Hello,
I recently decided to purchase a new Danuser EP10 hydr auger with skid steer front mount for mu John Deere110 tlb. I have always used a rear pto 3-point w/ hyd down force in the past. Got an opportunity to try out the new one yesterday. This model based on the front flow of my machine is 12gpm which equates to approx. 60 rpms. Quit slow compared to the old 3point pto model. As far as performance the auger slowly corkscrewed full depth very easy at tractor idle, never even grunting. Plenty of power even in very dry clay/rocky ground. Prob is that I stopped the spin at the bottom then lifted the auger straight out, reversed the auger,etc. Only to notice the hole was completely filled with pulverized spoil. I dropped back in the hole, drilled quickly to bottom, started spinning while letting it dwell hoping the spoils would come out which it really didn't. Pulled up,etc,etc,etc. Did this over and over across about 8 holes(9' auger btw). Only to realize that every hole k=now needed to be manually cleaned out which is ridiculous. The old fashioned 3-point spun much faster which allowed to lift it out while slinging the spoils. The hydraulic units spin very slow which prohibits drawing out the loose dirt. Tried drilling a foot then extracting up then back down incrementally, etc. Didn't really make any difference. My as well be drilling holes at the beach. A heavy investment for the entire system with augers. Very disappointing results. Not sure what I'm missing here on operational techniques. Anyone own one of these that have any input appreciated. Thanks

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

Many times idle rpm is not full hydraulic flow

 

[Bavarian]

Many times idle rpm is not full hydraulic flow

Not only many times, it is always.
The quoted hydraulic flow is the theoretical volume of a pump times revolutions. Without any resistance or internal leaks at the pump. As soon as you're adding some hoses, pipes, fittings, bends and worst ist a 90 degree angle, you're increasing resistance in the flow. Which is the case on a loader. Years and hours of service of the the pump causes wear. The pump can't push all the oil anymore it's supposed to go.
But in the OP's case, he needs to bump up RPMs.

 

[nyone]

I bet your not spinning the auger at enough flow for the flutes to become full. The dirt is just rolling around the auger.
Why would you run a hydraulic auger at idle any way?

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

Not only many times, it is always.
But in the OP's case, he needs to bump up RPMs.

Some of the smaller tractors with variable speed transmissions "idle" at full rpm.

The issue could be something else as well; perhaps the hydraulic lines or couplings are undersized and causing flow restriction? (it is a skidsteer implement after all).

 

[tmc_31]

I run a auger quite a bit on my skid steer digging fence post holes, piers for foundations and up to 36" by 11' piers for setting light poles. Occasionally I run the auger at low speed so I can feel for any obstructions I may be about to drill through (yes, I always call 811). In my area we have a wide variety of soils to deal with. Some of it very dry with lots of small rocks. Some so sticky it won't sling off the auger. When I run into the dry rocky soil, I usually dump a little water into the hole so that it will stick to the auger. Not so much that it turns to mud, just dampen it a little.

Tim

 

[Xfaxman]

Hello,
I recently decided to purchase a new Danuser EP10 hydr auger with skid steer front mount for mu John Deere110 tlb. I have always used a rear pto 3-point w/ hyd down force in the past. Got an opportunity to try out the new one yesterday. This model based on the front flow of my machine is 12gpm which equates to approx. 60 rpms. Not sure what I'm missing here on operational techniques. Thanks

12gpm is most likely at rated engine RPM which is 2600.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

That does remind me, (I know it says you have 3 hydraulic pumps) if the implement is sharing the hydraulics with the FEL (instead of auxiliary or using patch lines to the rear hydraulics - using the grapple hydraulic ports comes to mind) it will drop the flow while the FEL is operating.

 

[trctr155]

Sorry, after reading my initial post I didn't mention that I did ramp the RPM's from idle to about 2500, testing different ranges. I spun alittle faster but surprisingly not much. It's about a rev per sec as the specs from Danuser show. I have always noticed with this machine the hydro's are very strong even at the lower rpm range. Fact is it just isn't nearly as fast as a pto unit which you control with direct rpm's. Allowing you to drill at a slower speed, then at bottom, ramp it up while pulling the 3-point up and down, thus cleaning the hole. had to hand dig each out this morning the old fashioned way, excellent shoulder work out btw. Watch a bunch of vid's last night, seems this is just life in very dry soil this time of year here in NorCal. Spoke with a equipment excavation company today, guy said they pay a guy to follow the machine with hand tools on every hole. Lesson learned, should have kept the old 3-point, never let me down in 30 years.

 

[trctr155]

12gpm is most likely at rated engine RPM which is 2600.

View attachment 706983

That makes me wonder as I was aware of the the flow rates for the front end loader and backhoe, but the auger is directly hooked up th ethe 3rd function quick connects. I am not sure if they share the same front loader pump or if they plumb of one of the others?? The 3rd fuction control allows flow to both the front and rear auxiliary hydros. Regardless, the auger is turning at the speed Danuser says it should be, but I am curious.

 

[Bavarian]

Then the auger motor is speced for 12 gal?

 

[trctr155]

12gpm is most likely at rated engine RPM which is 2600.

View attachment 706983

That makes me wonder as I was aware of the the flow rates for the front end loader and backhoe, but the auger is directly hooked up th ethe 3rd function quick connects. I am not sure if they share the same front loader pump or if they plumb of one of the others?? The 3rd fuction control allows flow to both the front and rear auxiliary hydros. Regardless, the auger is turning at the speed Danuser says it should be, but I am cur

 

[trctr155]

EP1020​
Output Speed	Output Torque
GPM	RPM	PSI	FT.-LBS.
10	48	2500	1587
3000	1904
3500	2222
12	58	2500	1587
3000	1904
3500	2222
14	68	2500	1587
3000	1904
3500	2222
15	72	2500	1587
3000	1904
3500	2222
18	87	2500	1587
3000	1904
3500	2222
20	97	2500	1587
3000	1904
3500	2222

Yellow-shaded areas indicate recommended operating ranges.

The yellow doesnt show but there site shows 12-15 as being optimal. This was copied from Danuser site. So at 12gpm the turning rpm is 58. It is functioning at this rate. Just way to slow to effectively pull out very dry loose spoils. Would be awesome if it had a 2-speed function that would allow rapid spinning on the way up perhaps. Again, it had plenty of power to crush through the dirt, just wasnt used to these types to spinning fast enough to clean.

 

[Xfaxman]

If you are going to be using it a lot, consider a PTO driven hydraulic pump system that could spin it faster when raising: PTO driven hydraulic pump system at DuckDuckGo

 

[tmc_31]

If you have a spare rear remote, check and see what the flow through that is. If it is higher than what is available at the front, plumb from the rear remote to the front. Better yet, hook that auger to the back hoe arm and run it that way.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

If your is this model:

EP1020 Auger System | Danuser

www.danuser.com

You should be able to build a hydraulic doubler for it and push it up to 20gpm, maybe you can get closer to 95 rpm.

 

[nyone]

Flow can also change by hose and fitting size. If your machine has factory rear remotes some where there should be info on the flow and pressure of each.

Do you have a hydraulic schematic?

 

[Fallon]

I've got the same Danhuser hydraulic PHD I believe & its a lot slower RPM wise than my old 3pt PTO one. However due to downpressure & other factors it gets as many post holes per hour. I never corkscrewed my 3pt PHD, but came close a few times & was terrified of that. Never a concern with reverse.

One thing to remember is 12gpm at 2,500psi is about 17hp. Generally even a small SCUT has more PTO hp. And with restrictions & what not we are probably noticably under 12gpm to the actual PHD. With a 12" auger I can stall the auger if I go hard on it or am dealing with clay.

Due to a bad back & ease of use I wouldn't give up my SSQA hydraulic PHD for a 3pt. Even with its limitations.

 

[nyone]

I have a micro ex with 19hp diesel, 3 hydraulic pumps along with a hydraulic drive auger that runs off the remote circuit. I was just useing an 8in auger on hard clay and rock last week. I can tell you that 19hp (max) is enough. It was opening the relief well prior to bogging the engine at all. Really the only area you need torque is at the teeth, a auger filled with dirt really requires little torque to turn. Also hydraulics transfer torque alot easier than a drive shaft and gear box.

 

[RjCorazza]

I have a Land Pride ssqa hydraulic auger and recently finished re doing my fence. I noticed similar issues with auger speed and clearing out the holes.
The following worked best for me :
Dig 6" or so deeper than required.
Auger to full depth, stop the auger, remove from hole and spin off.
I do this 3 times and don't have to clam shell any dirt out by hand, and usually had to add a small amount of dirt and tamp while setting the post. My soil was pretty moist, but as a previous poster mentioned, adding water to the hole will help in clearing out the dirt.
It definitely doesn't clear the holes as easily as my old 3 point auger, but the ssqa hydraulic auger was soooooo much easier and faster overall.
In my case, I have a lot of broken up concrete in the soil about 18-24" down. A small chunk would stop the 3 point auger (either just spin on top or stall the tractor before I could clutch), requiring me to bust up the chunks with a digging bar and pull them out by hand. The hydraulic auger with down pressure brought it up nicely.