Hydraulic Motor sources?

[MChalkley]

I need a hydraulic motor to convert a mechanical PTO drive tiller I have to use with the EarthForce EF-5 I have on order. It would seem to me like this is something someone has done before. Does anyone have any suggestions for a source for such a beast? It would need to be able to handle 3500 psi and 10-20 gpm.

What I'd really like to do is mount the motor directly to the tiller gearbox. Normally, it would be easier to just get a new tiller, but it's a very heavy duty tiller and I went to the trouble of mounting a scarifier bar to it, so I hate to part with it. (http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=custom&Number=56678 has a picture of the tiller...)

MarkC

 

[MossRoad]

I recall someone mentioning that they wanted to convert a gasoline powered leaf blower to hydro for a Power Trac unit. Power Trac told them they can convert anything to hydro. Just a thought. They seem to know their hydraulics. I recall they were on your possible purchases list/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif?

<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>

 

[s1120]

Hears a link for you.

http://www.parker.com/parkersql/default.asp?type=2&id=33

I found this when I was planing some projects for my Case/Ingersoll.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Mark, try dinoil.net, its an Italian company that makes some of the finest hydraulic controls available

 

[zenmek]

I don't have any help for ya on the hydraulic question, but I gotta find out what the earthforce EF-5 is? Any web sites? I also loved the scarifier on your tiller, could come in real handy as I think rocks grow fresh every year here in old Kentucky/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hydraulic Sources & Technical

POCLAIN HYDRAULICS Inc-US

 

[MChalkley]

zenmek - Check out my "What a long, strange trip it's been..." in the "Other Brands" forum, which I should've named "Goodbye, Kubota & PowerTrac - Hello EarthForce". That'll probably give you all the info and links you need. Also, the "EarthForce EF-5 enhancements" topic under "Tractor Customization" contains some more, but it's mostly about what the EF-5 hasn't got, as opposed to what it has.

MarkC

 

[MChalkley]

zenmek - Oops, I forgot: The scarifier is great for turning up rocks before they have a chance to tear the tiller to pieces. Also if you run into something where the wheels suddenly start spinning, you know you've got hold of a big 'un and you need to roll it up out of the ground (or dig it out, of course, if it's that big...). Plus, in the red clay I till up for my father's garden, if the moisture content isn't just right, it's like brick. The scarifier teeth break right through it, crunch it in to smaller pieces and hold the tiller down in the stuff so it'll chew it up just the way you want it. It's so useful, I don't understand why they aren't at least optional on all tillers. I rarely put them up - even in soft ground they don't hurt a thing - and they can even be lowered quite a bit further than the till depth for subsoiling. Plus, they make a very handy stand to hold the tiller up while you're backing the Freedom Hitch under it. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

MarkC

 

[MChalkley]

John - Great links!!! Thanks! Now I just have to rumage through the sites... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkC

 

[zenmek]

Mark, thanks for the info /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif, sorry I couldn't help You /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[MChalkley]

zenmek - As to the former, You're welcome! And as to the latter, no problem, that's one thing you'll find out about this forum, if you haven't already: There are always folks here who are willing and able to help. Over the years, I've used lots of suggestions and leads from this site. Lately, I've been getting a lot more help than I've been giving, but that's another great thing about the gang here - you almost never hear anyone griping about, or sniping at, anyone else.

I looked at your bio and it seems you'll have a lot to contribute, too. Welcome!

MarkC

 

[s1120]

MarkC,
I think a hydro tiller is a good idea. It just seems that it is a little more forgiving if you hit something big underground. I have one for my Ingersoll, but I have not used it yet.[Little small for you I bet] If you can find an old Case/Ingersoll tiller [I think John Deer also had one] you may be able to adapt the hydro drive to your bigger tiller.

 

[hayden]

Have you tried Northern Tool? Their catalogue lists several hydraulic motors.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Sorry Mark, that address was http://www.dinoil.it, they have some fancy stuff. My local Kubota/JD dealer sells dinoil valves for the rear remotes on his Kubotas.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Mark:
If you're still hunting hydraulic information, you might try Bailey Sales Corporation, in Knoxville, TN. Their printed catalog has a number of types of motors. They claim to stock the largest assortment of cylinders in the country. Their orientation is generally toward farm/construction equipment, with a lot of hydraulic controllers, plus bearings, rod ends, wheels, chains, etc.

www.Baileynet.com
1-800-800-1810



Charlie Iliff

 

[MChalkley]

Charlie & Rat - Thanks, guys. I'll check those sources, too.

I'm still looking for a suitable motor that isn't outrageous in price. The problem is that it has to meet some very specific criteria: It has to be able to handle 3,000 psi continuous pressure, and produce about 540 rpm at 20 gpm. These are apparently pretty unusual parameters for hydraulic motors. Thanks for the steady stream of sources, guys!

MarkC

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Mark:
Since I have almost no experience with hydraulic motors, other than running a Jacobsen Turf Cat, with a 72" front hydraulic mower, I certainly can't suggest a specific motor. I am sure Bailey has someone who can advise. As already suggested, of course, the people you talked with at Power Trac know a lot about hydraulic implements. I haven't asked, but I saw a post somewhere that they had recommended specific motors for conversion of various implements for a landscaping contractor who got one of the 425s. I suspect, however, that not many things are set up for the pressure and flow you're dealing with.
At full chat, 3000 psi, 20 GPM and 540, what torque would you expect? Extrapolating from one motor spec, I see close to 300 lb. ft. (30 hp?) Does your machine need that much?
No expertise here, I'm just starting to learn a little for when I ultimately get a Power-Trac and try to convert a couple of my PTO gadgets.


Charlie Iliff

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

http://www.whitehydraulics.com

lists at least one fitting your specs for performance. No clue whether the cost is reasonable or matches a whole new implement.

Charlie Iliff

 

[MChalkley]

Charlie - Your numbers are about right, though it depends on the motor efficiency quite a bit. One thing to keep in mind: The PSI primarily determines the torque output of the motor, while the GPM determines its speed - the combination of the two (torque and rpm) is its HP rating. Again, motor design also comes heavily into play, but that's the main principle. You can also go at it from the other direction, with the motor displacement being the variable. For example, a higher displacement motor generates more torque at a given PSI, but at a lower RPM than the lower displacement motor would. Of course, all motors have design considerations that make them most efficient at a particular RPM range, and which would limit their RPM to a certain maximum, so that has to be taken into consideration, too. Higher rpm motors tend to be more efficient than lower rpm ones, too. That's why auger manufacturers generally use a higher rpm motor with a chain drive or planetary drive to reduce it to the 75 rpm or so that the auger needs. It's hard to get a hydraulic motor to operate efficiently at that low a speed - it'll turn, but it won't produce much torque. Or if you did design one that would, it would be a lot bigger and more expensive than the combination of a smaller motor and a planetary drive.

The McMillen X1600 auger I picked up yesterday is an excellent example of this. The drive head weighs close to 150 pounds, I'd estimate, and a lot of it is the planetary drive. There's a table in the manual which lists its rpm at various flow rates and its output torque at various psi rates. PPM varies from 41 rpm at 10 gpm to 104 rpm at 25 gpm. Torque varies from 1482 lb-ft at 2000 psi to 2224 lb-ft at 3000 psi, so that gives you an idea of what we're talking about - but keep in mind that that's with a planetary reduction gear.

MarkC