Hydraulic Multipiers

gates · Feb 2, 2006

Rambler,
He could do it that way. He would need a 3x diverter. But that still does not allow the loader and the grapple to be able to function simultaneously. One function will be lost when the diverter is activated.
It is a matter of preference. I believe the costs will be ~ the same. The best option( I dont know about the perfect world /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) would be to install a directioonal valve for the grapple (no loss of loader functions during grapple operation) and install a diverter for the rear outlets.

Ron

gates · Feb 2, 2006

Mad,
I agree with you. A directional valve with the correct specifications being properly placed would be my first choice, but that is not what he wants to do according to the previous posts. He wants to tie in at the loader connections. He could just use an Add A Valve set up and does not need the SV. Once again, he will have to operate the loader stick to get fluid to the Add A Valve then select the port he wants. This causes him to lose a loader function temporarily while he diverts the flow.

Ron

Partsman2 · Feb 2, 2006

Moemoe,

I have a John Deere so the hydraulics are a little different setup but basically the same. I have already added a WR Long grapple and want to also add top & tilt to the rear.

Basically the JD, and I think the other tractors are the same, is an open center system. So as long as you keep the fluid flowing you're good to go. You can divert the fluid anywhere you need it to as long as you don't dead head it. This allows you to hook multiple solenoid switches in series and simply divert the fluid. It does stop any other hydraulic operation while the fluid is diverted but I don't see the issue with that as it's only momentary while the switch is activated and you are typically only using one function at a time anyway.

In setting up the grapple I bought the complete kit from WR Long. It came with a Hy-V-Air electric solenoid valve and a joystick mounted control button. The hydraulics come from the power beyond port on the SCV, go into a port on the Hy-V-Air valve block and out the other side. This then goes to the back of the tractor and feeds the power beyond port on the back of the tractor that I run a BH and a log splitter off of. I have quick disconnects coming off the solenoid switch running to the front of the loader and the grapple plugs into the hoses at the front. The Hy-V-Air electric valve is just a divertor that diverts the fluid to the grapple cylinders. It does stop any other hydraulic movement when you activate the switch but it really isn't an issue. This setup works great.

My problem is now that I want to add a top & tilt kit. The JD setup to add the control levers and the additional hydraulic ports is very expensive (over $2000). My thoughts are the same as yours that I should be able to just add 2 more electric divertor valves in series with the setup I have. I'm thinking of mounting the switches on the fender though so my joystick is not so cluttered and I think that would be a more convenient location than the joystick for a t & t operation anyway. I'm thinking I should be able to add this hydraulic setup for $300 to $400 including the hoses. I say that but I have not priced the electric solenoid valves separately yet.

I don't see why this won't work. Does anyone else?

Partsman

gates · Feb 2, 2006

Partsman,
If what you have described in your post is the way your tractor is plumbed, then you are diverting the rear SCV flow. You are not hooked into the power beyond circuit. You may have some nomenclature wrong.
It is not as simple as just keep the fluid flowing. Each one of those valves have a pressure loss and flow rate associated with them. If you are using a D03 series Hyvair and you are hooked into the power beyond circuit, depending on which tractor you have, you are already over flow capacity for that valve. This creates heat. You can not just keep adding valves without ramifications. Once again I am not sure how you are plumbed, the description is misleading.

Ron

Partsman2 · Feb 2, 2006

My tractor is a JD 4710. I have the dual SCV which controls the FEL. I also have a power beyond port at the rear of the tractor to run the BH and log splitter from. Before I put in the solenoid valve the hyd line came out of the power beyond port on the dual scv and went to the power beyond connection at the rear. If I'm using my 3PH there is a hose that loops around and plugs into the return side and in through rockshaft port. If I am using the BH I plug the pressure side of the BH into the PB and the return side goes straight to the sump.

When I added the solenoid valve I simply disconnected the line goign to the rear PB and ran it to the pressure side of the valve. The return side of the valve goes to the pressure side of the PB.

I ran it that way all last summer and that was with some pretty heavy BH work. I had no problems or overheating going on so I have to assume it's OK.

I don't know which valve I have. I will check that out and make sure the flow capacity is right. The pump capacity is 10.6 GPM. The BH has operated exactly the same as the factory setup did also.

I would assume that as long as the flow of the valve is rated at the proper capacity then there shouldn't be a problem.

gates · Feb 2, 2006

Partsman,
Thanks for the clarification. The Hyvair D03 series will flow 12 gpm at a pressure of 3600. It also has a pressure drop of 210psi as well. I believe the 4710 is 2500 psi. Therefor if you put two more Hyvairs in series like you were thinking you also would have two more 210 psi drops. This equates to a 25% drop in total pressure. That is substaintial. The easiest thing for you to do is to use a diverter to split the Hyvair outputs.

Ron

rambler · Feb 5, 2006

( But that still does not allow the loader and the grapple to be able to function simultaneously. One function will be lost when the diverter is activated.

Ron )

I understand what you are saying. On most compact tractors, we don't have much flow anyhow, 7-10 gpm. Typically you only get to do one action at a time anyhow at those flow rates......

But yes, the negative of the electric selinoids is they are an on/off switch, no splitting the flow between several tasks.

--->Paul

gates · Feb 5, 2006

Rambler,
The pressure drops I showed were with the valve just being installed and not operating. No matter what GPM the concept still remains the same.

Ron

rambler · Feb 5, 2006

( Rambler,
The pressure drops I showed were with the valve just being installed and not operating. No matter what GPM the concept still remains the same.

Ron )

Yup. Understood. Different issue, you are very correct that daisy chaining more valves will add resistence.

Small tractors don't have very big pumps. I find typically i can only do one thing at a time anyhow, operating 2 valves at the same time really doesn't work for much anyhow.

More industrial tractors have big hyd pumps and are set up to drive multiple hyd cylinders at the same time.

All I'm saying, is that a little tractor with a little pump likely won't make too much difference if you have full flow to all valves, or need to electriclly choose one _or_ the other.

--->Paul

jrwattsjr · Feb 5, 2006

If you want the system to work more than one valve at the time. Feed two valve in parallel with a flow divider. It can be adjusted from 90/10% to 50/50% flow. You will be slower than series valves, but they will work at the same time. On big system use center close parallel valve with variable displacement pumps.