Hydraulic noise

   / Hydraulic noise #1  

HeavyToy

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
41
Location
Chelsea, Alabama
Tractor
New Holland / TC25
After reviewing the posts here and in other forums regarding the power steering noise, as well as the maintenance schedule, it sounds as if power steering/hydraulic noise is common in cold weather. Why is that? Why do automobiles not react to temperature change that way? What is happening mechanically and fluid dynamically to cause noise?

Any insight would be appreciated.
 
   / Hydraulic noise #2  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( After reviewing the posts here and in other forums regarding the power steering noise, as well as the maintenance schedule, it sounds as if power steering/hydraulic noise is common in cold weather. Why is that? Why do automobiles not react to temperature change that way? What is happening mechanically and fluid dynamically to cause noise?

Any insight would be appreciated. )</font>

This is going to sound like a flippant response, but it's not meant to be...

If you want to hear how much noise is made by your car/truck, you'll have to raise the hood and climb inside while someone else drives you around for awhile. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Your car's passenger compartment is surrounded with noise deadening material. Your tractor is right out in the open and you sit right above the transmission which is not shockmounted to the chassis. Even in a cab tractor, many of the outside noises go away. I don't know of any hydraulic pump or motor that doesn't make some noise.
 
   / Hydraulic noise
  • Thread Starter
#3  
No need to apologize. However, I understand the point you make, but I believe that you have missed mine. I am concerned about a new noise that was not there for the first 24 hrs of use; a noise that translates a vibration at a similar frequency to the whine through the steering wheel. This noise is similar to what a car PS pump makes when it is very low on fluid. After having described this in an earlier post, the majority of respondents advised that it was the cold temperature that causes the noise. That is when I posted the new question in an attempt to understand the "justification" for such a noise.

(tractor only has 200 hrs on it with no power steering fluid/filter changes due for another 400 hrs, also the fluid level is full)
 
   / Hydraulic noise #4  
Living in Alabama, I'd be suprised to learn that any noise on your tractor is due to cold weather. Up here in Michigan, absolutely yes. But even then, I notice the hydro whine, etc, not getting worse till the outdoor temp is getting down in the 20-40 degree range. You might try test driving a similar/same tractor at your dealer, just to be sure your senses haven't gotten better. Then, if no noise there, have them take a look at yours.
 
   / Hydraulic noise #5  
Quite common for 'too cold' oil.. or 'too thick' oil to cause a pump to whine.. could be anything from cavitation.. to reliefs chattering. I can rememebr when some NH hydr trannies made a 'whine' and NH recomended a lighter grade oil for cold climates... etc.

Soundguy
 
   / Hydraulic noise #6  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( However, I understand the point you make, but I believe that you have missed mine. I am concerned about a new noise that was not there for the first 24 hrs of use; a noise that translates a vibration at a similar frequency to the whine through the steering wheel. )</font>

...and I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but it's hard to figure out what you are asking because you said in your first post in this thread that automobiles don't make these noises, and I just tried to explain that they do. Because of the design of their steering system, you don't get the extra noise translated up through the auto steering column. If you listen to the pump and steering box on an automobile, you definitely hear a "groaning" type sound that increases when the fluid (normally ATF) is cold. Now I see you actually want to know how your system could suddenly start making more noise and vibration than before. That's a good and valid question. Okay, I'm going to give that a "stab." /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

In your other thread and in this one, you never mentioned that your tractor is a TC25 and that it's power steering pump is not run by a belt-pulley arrangment, but is gear driven off the engine. You also didn't establish that your filter is actually a reservoir and to change it required draining and disassembly rather than a spin-on filter. That's why JerryG in the other thread gave you bad info. There was no way for him to know what you have.

I'll ask for you... <font color="blue"> Have any of you who own a TC25 had similar symptoms? </font>

I believe the way your system works is your steering column is directly connected to a steering valve/pump. There is absolutely no mechanical connection between your steering wheel and your front axle, only hydraulic lines. When your engine is off, you can turn the front wheels, but only with great effort because the steering wheel powers a pump to push fluid out to the hydraulic steering cylinder. When the engine is powering the pump, it takes over all that work and when you move the steering wheel, you more or less open valves and direct fluid in the proper direction to power the steering hydraulic cylinder.

Okay, all this to say that those valves are tight and stiff when new and as your tractor becomes broken in, they might start to make more noise as fluid passes through. Of course it could also be a problem like air getting into the lines causing cavitation as Soundguy and others have correctly suggested.

I would make a check of the fluid level in the reservoir and the hose coming out the bottome to make sure it is tight. If it's not leaking any fluid, it's probably tight. Follow that line and check all the fittings all the way to the pump to make sure they are tight. Hold your hand on the pump while getting someone else to move the steering wheel (if you can't reach it). Try to identify if the noise is coming from the pump or from the steering motor/pump in the steering column. Also check to see if the noise goes away as the tractor and fluid warms up. After that, you could call your dealer and talk to his service manager with a full description of the symptoms and what you have checked. That will help him determine if he thinks you need to bring the tractor in for a checkup.

Also, you might send a PM to MikePA. He also has a TC25 and can probably give you a good idea of how his steering works.

I really hope you find your problem. It can be really frustrating to have something crop up and make you wonder if it's a problem or something you should ignore. Remember, nothing is a substitute for a full description of the tractor and the problem. You'll find lots of expertise here if folks know exactly what the problem seems to be and the exact configuration of your tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
   / Hydraulic noise
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thank you Jinman for your insightful advise, as well as your patience in following up on my problem. I will troubleshoot the noise as you suggest.

It is always more difficult to solve problems when you don't know what you don't know.
 

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