hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c?

[boggen]

bought a New Holland 555c loader backhoe last year or so. everything works.

but it overheats, and i do believe it is due to hydraulic oil.

when i initially got it, i changed, the hydraulic filter. and the filter had hard caked on substance say 1/2" to 1" thick around most of the hydraulic filter openings.

i didn't change hydraulic oil in the tractor, 21+ gallons is a tad expensive for little amount of work that was to be done. and it ran. instead of trading it in for a smaller utility tractor like plan. i am keeping this for some more work on the farm and need to use it fairly hard.

it takes approx 2 hours of using the loader (changing gears 1-4, forward/reverse) to move dirt before it starts to over heat. throttle 1/2 way to 3/4.

if i am using backhoe. 3/4 throttle i can keep going and going. till i wear out.

i think the result of the engine itself overheating. is due to the "oil cooler" is in front of the water radiator for the engine. i think the hydraulic oil is over heating.

another thing right out rigger (passenger side if it was a car and you were facing forward) when operating it more so i cold weather, i can feel a chunk of something thump through the valve and into the out rigger cylinder. every now and then it is not all the time. and if i attempt to fully open this valve (either way) it may get stuck and i have to put some pretty good force to pop it back into resting/hold position place.

it was this past summer when i noticed it on one of the 100 plus degree days. that i noticed the transmission oil looked a tad milky. and hydraulic in the reservoir tank was a tad milky color in look.

the transmission uses the same main oil cooler as the rest of the hydraulics of this tractor exception being power steering which is it own separate closed loop circuit.
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i think i need to do full ""hydraulic oil system cleaning"" after doing some reading on the internet. but i am coming up short on details. more so on hard chunks of build up on hydraulic oil filter that i found originally. and i am going to assume build up of like hard substance in rest of the tractor. and what can be used to dissolve the substance. and what needs to be done to clean it all up. ((loader cylinders, backhoe cylinders, valves, transmission)) without having to split the tractor in half and manually cleaning everything.

 

[J_J]

I believe I would drain all the fluid and filters and replace with factory recommendations.

Once fluid gets milky, the hyd fluid has detergents, and when emulsified, it is almost impossible to renew the same fluid. There are hyd cleaners units, but very expensive.

If left outside, throw a good tarp over the tractor.

Water does settle to the bottom of hyd fluid, and will remain there until the pump sucks up the water, and then you know what happens.

There are hyd filters that have a water absorbent agent that will absorb some of the water.

 

[boggen]

thanks for reply JJ

for temp doings will hit all the drain plugs.

as far as full drain and refill and filters. going to hold off. till i find more info / pricing of having a system clean done on it.

it would be nice if i could find something that i could add to the hydrualic oil and just let the tractor run at idle or 1/2 or 3/4 throttle to get everything warmed up. and help dissolve the build up stuff in it, then drain everything and refill. without doing all the filters and like of a system clean. though thinking about it, it sounds like if i did find something, i would more than likely be spinning my wheels.

 

[J_J]

Yes, everyone would like a system like that. I have seen the results of just cleaning the oil, and it looks like new, but that is taking the oil outside and running it through several filters with heaters, etc. As far as the filters, they are a throw away unit. As far as getting most of the old stuff out of the hoses and cyl and transmission, you may have to filter about 3 times. You could go cheap fluid at first and then for the last refill, use the factory recommended fluid for your climate.

I would just get rid of the contaminated fluid and start over with new filters and fluid.

It is probably sort of like those sewage filter plants that say it is so clean that you could drink it, but would you.

 

[J_J]

GPM Hydraulic Consulting, Inc

 

[J_J]

The picture above shows what the sample looked like and when they were finished

Emulsified sample, one pass through filter, 4 hours of flushing, 16 hours of flushing.

 

[boggen]

thanks for the info and link!

ran across the website already, but haven't had time to click through it much yet.

i have 2 local companies. that came up in the phone book. for hyd will give them a call in a couple days. to see about costs of a full system cleaning.

and see if they just rent a machine out. that i can use and buy the cleaning / flushing fluid from them. or if i have to have machine taken to them.

if i can get the main hard gunk stuff out of the system via disolving with heat and turblent currents. that would be nice. which i am hoping will remove caked on matter in lines and in dead zones (no flow areas) of the hyd system to get cleaned, to allow for more flow and less heat build up within the system after new hyd fluid is put in. that and help keep new hyd oil form being contaminated without the old gunk in the system.

 

[RickB]

1. Dirty hydraulic oil isn't going to make the engine overheat.
2. The hydraulic oil cooler and transmission oil cooler are separate, as are those respective systems and oil supplies.
3. Oil and filters are, and always will be, cheaper than pumps and valves.
4. A thorough external cleaning of both oil coolers and the radiator will probably cure your immediate overheating problem. A cooling system flush or orther radiator service along with a properly functioning thermostat and fan belt are a couple other considerations.

Bottom line, I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

 

[J_J]

boggen said this, if i am using backhoe. 3/4 throttle i can keep going and going. till i wear out.

So what rpm should the engine run when using the BH. An engine at low idle will heat up as there is not enough cooling. I don't believe there is a problem if there is sufficient cooling at higher rpm's.. The GPM's going to the BH dictates the speed of BH operation, and the operator finesse.

Do you have a temp gage for the hyd fluid?

The engine should be run at 1/2 to 3/4 speed for proper cooling.

 

[boggen]

no temp gauge for the hyd oil

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power steering fluid, hydrulic oil for front loader and back hoe, and the tranmission all use the exact same type of oil.

the shop manual i have for it, shows a tranmission filter just off to the side of it, and then an inlet/outlet line that run all the way up to the front of the tractor. and when looking myself to double check things. it looks like the same lines for the loader and back hoe all run into the same cooler.

there are 2 pumps one standard pump to run front loader and backhoe. ((located up in the front i want to say just below the radiator, (would need to double check manual)) and then the tranmission has a built in pump into it per say.

when you say there should be 2 different oil coolers. one for the loader/backhoe and other for tranmission. i can completely understand. but when i am physically looking at things and then at manual. i am just not seeing 2 different coolers. ((not counting the radiator for the engine)) and the manual doesn't make a distenction between the 2 coolers when looking at pictures.

Vbelt for the fan, it broke last year. thankfully someone had it apart before. and zip tied a new belt around the shaft and stuffed it away. for when the old belt broke. so i didn't have to competely tear off the entire front end. to replace the vbelt.

fan runs, altanator runs like it should. no sqealing, right tightness. ((forget how much flex it suppose to have, would need to double check the book))

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next thing.

i can rev up to 3/4 engine speed when going at it with the backhoe. granted 3/4 engine speed after 3 hours my rear, shoulders and arms, is ready for a break, but temp gauge for engine stays the same. and never gets to red line.

if i let the tractor just set there, at idle speed. there is no temperature change for the engine. heck i generally let it run for 15 minutes to warm up when initially started and longer in zero digit cold weather. (has block heater) then let it run for 15 minutes to cool down at idle speed. and there is a change in the gauge. most of the time. pending on how long, hard i ran it.

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next thing PROBLEM A
if i run the tractor (reverse / forward) or work the tranmission. say not paying attention and to high of gear for what i was doing. it would over heat. that would be no brainer, *looks guilty* when i first got it, and started playing, it took a couple times to get use to the gears. and i did get the temp gauge for engine warm, by running into high of gear for the load i had and speed i wanted to go. no guage for tranmission, so i can't not say how hot it got.

but say running 2nd gear and at 3/4 throttle and going for 1 mile over flat ground, it would want to overheat and i did smell antifreeze once boiling out. (not doing anything grading, working bucket or backhoe (nothing)) just driving.

coldest day of this year not sure how cold it was low single digit or below zero. worked the transmission plowing snow. it took a couple hours before i started seeing the temp gauge for the engine to start to rise, once it did over the next hour 2 to 3 hours it slowly rised. if i went another hour i could of had a boil over and been smelling antifreeze.

PROBLEM A, to me would suggest tranmission is overheating. since i can run engine at 3/4 throttle non stop while working backhoe. granted not a constant load on the engine like the tranmission would have.

PROBLEM A, when i removed the old filter. the filter had a hard crusted hyd oil clear around it. it was almost like a rock in strengh. but looked waxy and clear. like it was hyd oil. but something for what ever reason caused it to form into a solid. kinda like greese when ya put it in a frying pan it is a liquid but when when it cools down it is hard substance. granted the stuff on the filter was much harder.

1st grear = digging with front loader bucket
2nd gear = back dragging / grading / pushing snow
3rd gear = load in bucket going down a hill or on flat terrain.
4th gear = road gear. requires me to be on flat surface. to even use. and all in all i doubt i will ever use. to 20mph to fast. for what i need to do. and way to bouncy.

there is no low or high gears. it does have shuttle shift. so same speed either forward or reverse.

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PROBLEM B
when i initally got the 555C it work nothing was lighting up in cab. after some use the BY pass for the hyd filter for loader/backhoe came on. it had same like waxy looking hyd oil look that was hard like a rock around it. for temp doing i nocked the stuff off. put filter back on. and light went out. the light came back on next time i used it or there after. (was waiting for new filter or was shorter after i put new filter on), by pass valve for hyd filter for the loader / backhoe came on. took filter off, and there was another chunk of this waxy looking stuff made out of hyd oil that was hard as a rock. stuck to the outside of the filter. removed put back on, the by pass valve for that filter, has never came back on.

shortly then after i felt the chunk of something go through the one rigger. when i say felt. there is a "thump" and through the vibrations. and looking at the lines to the cylinder on out to the outrigger. there is something in the given line.

after the "thump" everything is fine for some time. till what ever it is works it way back into the line and back into the valve.

PROBLEM B. this "thump" or what ever it is. is worse when the oil is cool and less when oil is hot. leading me to believe that it is a chunk of this hard waxy hyd oil stuff. more so. i can tell when the chunk of what ever it is stuck in a metal hose vs a rubber hose. due to it is harder to move the valve.

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at my current line of thinking is. what ever has caused this hard waxy oil stuff to form around the old filters (for loader/backhoe) and for the (tranmission). is most likely a build up of "something" what ever it is. is causing the pipes / hoses and areas were the oil flows to in idea clog things up else were in the system. not completely stoping the flow but instead of having say 1/2" inside diameter pipe, with this stuff clogging things up results in having a 1/4" inside diameter pipe.

smaller size piping with same amount of volume of oil flowing through it = higher GPM through given areas and more friction, more friction = more heat. more heat = things start to overheat.

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then again it could be 2 different problems. just something in the one outrigger line. and something is up with the tranmission causing it to overheat. resulting in the engine over heating.