hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c?

   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c? #11  
I think I would get everything hot and drain the oil. Then I would break all the lines to all the cylinders oil coolers and any other connections where I could drain out the oil then manual cycle each cylinder to remove all the oil from both ends of all the cylinders, then with all the cylinders connected up with the except of hose connections, replace all the oil and filters leave the hoses off the cylinder and using the control valve cycle some oil thru the lines till all the old oil is cleaned out. Replace the lines on the cylinder, retop all the oil reserviors and run it far several hours of operation with some rough ground to shake up the reservoir oil. Check the oil again for color and clarity and if it is milky or off color repeat the process again. Make sure that you dont have some internal filter or screen that you havent cleaned. I had a Japanese greymarket that the hydraulic system was filled with something that looked like grey mud. It took 3 changing of oil and filters and cleaning of an internal screen to finally get it cleaned up. It almost sounds like someone put in the wrong type of oil and the two types are not mixing well together and one of them is breaking down.
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c? #12  
no temp gauge for the hyd oil

===========================

power steering fluid, hydrulic oil for front loader and back hoe, and the tranmission all use the exact same type of oil.

the shop manual i have for it, shows a tranmission filter just off to the side of it, and then an inlet/outlet line that run all the way up to the front of the tractor. and when looking myself to double check things. it looks like the same lines for the loader and back hoe all run into the same cooler.

there are 2 pumps one standard pump to run front loader and backhoe. ((located up in the front i want to say just below the radiator, (would need to double check manual)) and then the tranmission has a built in pump into it per say.

when you say there should be 2 different oil coolers. one for the loader/backhoe and other for tranmission. i can completely understand. but when i am physically looking at things and then at manual. i am just not seeing 2 different coolers. ((not counting the radiator for the engine)) and the manual doesn't make a distenction between the 2 coolers when looking at pictures.

Vbelt for the fan, it broke last year. thankfully someone had it apart before. and zip tied a new belt around the shaft and stuffed it away. for when the old belt broke. so i didn't have to competely tear off the entire front end. to replace the vbelt.

fan runs, altanator runs like it should. no sqealing, right tightness. ((forget how much flex it suppose to have, would need to double check the book))

============================
next thing.

i can rev up to 3/4 engine speed when going at it with the backhoe. granted 3/4 engine speed after 3 hours my rear, shoulders and arms, is ready for a break, but temp gauge for engine stays the same. and never gets to red line.

if i let the tractor just set there, at idle speed. there is no temperature change for the engine. heck i generally let it run for 15 minutes to warm up when initially started and longer in zero digit cold weather. (has block heater) then let it run for 15 minutes to cool down at idle speed. and there is a change in the gauge. most of the time. pending on how long, hard i ran it.

==============================
next thing PROBLEM A
if i run the tractor (reverse / forward) or work the tranmission. say not paying attention and to high of gear for what i was doing. it would over heat. that would be no brainer, *looks guilty* when i first got it, and started playing, it took a couple times to get use to the gears. and i did get the temp gauge for engine warm, by running into high of gear for the load i had and speed i wanted to go. no guage for tranmission, so i can't not say how hot it got.

but say running 2nd gear and at 3/4 throttle and going for 1 mile over flat ground, it would want to overheat and i did smell antifreeze once boiling out. (not doing anything grading, working bucket or backhoe (nothing)) just driving.

coldest day of this year not sure how cold it was low single digit or below zero. worked the transmission plowing snow. it took a couple hours before i started seeing the temp gauge for the engine to start to rise, once it did over the next hour 2 to 3 hours it slowly rised. if i went another hour i could of had a boil over and been smelling antifreeze.

PROBLEM A, to me would suggest tranmission is overheating. since i can run engine at 3/4 throttle non stop while working backhoe. granted not a constant load on the engine like the tranmission would have.

PROBLEM A, when i removed the old filter. the filter had a hard crusted hyd oil clear around it. it was almost like a rock in strengh. but looked waxy and clear. like it was hyd oil. but something for what ever reason caused it to form into a solid. kinda like greese when ya put it in a frying pan it is a liquid but when when it cools down it is hard substance. granted the stuff on the filter was much harder.

1st grear = digging with front loader bucket
2nd gear = back dragging / grading / pushing snow
3rd gear = load in bucket going down a hill or on flat terrain.
4th gear = road gear. requires me to be on flat surface. to even use. and all in all i doubt i will ever use. to 20mph to fast. for what i need to do. and way to bouncy.

there is no low or high gears. it does have shuttle shift. so same speed either forward or reverse.

===================
PROBLEM B
when i initally got the 555C it work nothing was lighting up in cab. after some use the BY pass for the hyd filter for loader/backhoe came on. it had same like waxy looking hyd oil look that was hard like a rock around it. for temp doing i nocked the stuff off. put filter back on. and light went out. the light came back on next time i used it or there after. (was waiting for new filter or was shorter after i put new filter on), by pass valve for hyd filter for the loader / backhoe came on. took filter off, and there was another chunk of this waxy looking stuff made out of hyd oil that was hard as a rock. stuck to the outside of the filter. removed put back on, the by pass valve for that filter, has never came back on.

shortly then after i felt the chunk of something go through the one rigger. when i say felt. there is a "thump" and through the vibrations. and looking at the lines to the cylinder on out to the outrigger. there is something in the given line.

after the "thump" everything is fine for some time. till what ever it is works it way back into the line and back into the valve.

PROBLEM B. this "thump" or what ever it is. is worse when the oil is cool and less when oil is hot. leading me to believe that it is a chunk of this hard waxy hyd oil stuff. more so. i can tell when the chunk of what ever it is stuck in a metal hose vs a rubber hose. due to it is harder to move the valve.

=========================
at my current line of thinking is. what ever has caused this hard waxy oil stuff to form around the old filters (for loader/backhoe) and for the (tranmission). is most likely a build up of "something" what ever it is. is causing the pipes / hoses and areas were the oil flows to in idea clog things up else were in the system. not completely stoping the flow but instead of having say 1/2" inside diameter pipe, with this stuff clogging things up results in having a 1/4" inside diameter pipe.

smaller size piping with same amount of volume of oil flowing through it = higher GPM through given areas and more friction, more friction = more heat. more heat = things start to overheat.

========================
then again it could be 2 different problems. just something in the one outrigger line. and something is up with the tranmission causing it to overheat. resulting in the engine over heating.

The various systems use the same type of oil, but they are all (steering, transmission, hydraulics, rear axle) distinct reserviors; the oil does not comingle. The transmission cooler is part #E7NN7A095CA and the hydraulis oil cooler is part #E8NNF830AC. Both are mounted in front of the radiator. Check the area between the coolers and radiator, it is probably stuffed full of debris.
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c? #13  
I don't want to confuse matters, but anytime I hear these symptoms, I check into a torque converter issue. C series were good for stripping the stator splines. The result is an inefficient TC that overloads the engine and overheats trans oil. The coolers on these models do a good job of shedding transmission heat, but the extra load on the engine is hard to cool.

I would suggest a transmission stall test.

At full throttle, no load, the engine should be around 2400 rpm. With the trans in 4th gear, forward and the brakes locked, at full throttle the speed should be 1800-2000 rpm. Any less and there is either an engine power problem, or the the torque converter failed.
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c? #14  
I don't want to confuse matters, but anytime I hear these symptoms, I check into a torque converter issue. C series were good for stripping the stator splines. The result is an inefficient TC that overloads the engine and overheats trans oil. The coolers on these models do a good job of shedding transmission heat, but the extra load on the engine is hard to cool.

I would suggest a transmission stall test.

At full throttle, no load, the engine should be around 2400 rpm. With the trans in 4th gear, forward and the brakes locked, at full throttle the speed should be 1800-2000 rpm. Any less and there is either an engine power problem, or the the torque converter failed.

Admittedly I don't do as much with T/C transmissions. Would a stall test with a result closer to WOT indicate a worn converter?
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c? #15  
RickB said:
Admittedly I don't do as much with T/C transmissions. Would a stall test with a result closer to WOT indicate a worn converter?

Usually that would be slipping clutches. A 200-400 rpm drop from WOT is desired. I've never really seen a worn out TC. From what I've seen, they break, and mostly it's the stator. It gets a lot of stress when pushing hard. On early models, up to the B's the sprag clutches fail, C-D's the splines strip (someone forgot to harden them) .

I only mention the converter because I've seen many misdiagnosed engine/power/overheat problems, when the converter fails.

If the stall test is different between forward and reverse, there's a clutch problem.

Also, only perform the test for no more than 30 seconds at a time to prevent damaging the transmission.
 
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   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
will price out the oil. for a couple full oil changes. and line up some 30 to 55 gallon drums. i can dump old oil into.

i have floor jack, and large farm jack, but not a small piston jack. so that will be on the list before i start dealing with the cylinders.

have a little pump that hooks up to a regular drill and rated to pump oil that is warm. just needs a couple hoses and clamps. so good to go there for pumping from a small pan below the tractor to a drum.

new pair of snap ring pliers. last ones bent and broke :(

will need to recheck, but only filters for hyd i remember are the main hyd filter for loader/backhoe. then on side of transmission. and i want to say a screen in the main reservoir tank for the loader/backhoe.

might try to use the little drill pump on cylinders. so some fittings to go between hoses.

am guessing i will need some hoses rated for at least 170 degrees. to deal with the warm old oil vs cutting up a garden hose. guessing just checking with local repair shop, to find cheapest hose type they have.

a couple ball valves and a tee. for priming the cylinders back up with new oil. and some fittings for a diy 4" funnel. attached to the tee. to help burb out air.

=========================
i would like to think i should be able to get to all cylinders without full removal. by just letting everything down and stretching the backhoe all the way out on the ground. and just disconnecting the rod side of each cylinder.

the only exception being the 2 swing cylinders. for the backhoe. not sure if there is enough wiggle room. to disconnect them. without taking off entire backhoe. i don't have another tractor besides the old allis CA and it doesn't have enough umph in the rear to pickup up that weight. let alone getting it near a good spot. to do anything good with it.

==========================
i think that is everything.

hhmmmsss large pack of paper towels, and some kitty litter. and some 4mil or 6 mil plastic to lay down. to deal with any accidental spills.
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c?
  • Thread Starter
#17  
as far as the stall test, sounds enough.

but one problem. i know there is a couple types of RPM spinner gauges. some that just touch push up against end of the main shaft. and others that you push up against the side of the shaft.

but the only spots that might be avilable. to use either one is. some how pushing something through front of tractor back to the hyd pump.

or getting everything warmed up first then disconnecting the Vbelt, that runs fan, alternator. turn tractor back on. and pushing a spinner RPM gauge down on the shaft between hyd pump and engine.

and last but least thing i can think of, would be buying an RPM gauge like cars / trucks have. and some how hooking it up *looks confused*

========================
i will re take a look back at the oil coolers. and see if the tran mission oil cooler is plugged up with stuff.
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c?
  • Thread Starter
#18  
radiator has already had a good flushing last year. i don't think it is due for another flushing till beginning of summer for the yearly flushing. take that back. when i installed the block heater. a couple months back it got a descent flushing. and what came out looked good. though i didn't test it. i just drained it all and put new 50/50 mix antifreeze / water back into it.

it is due for a good greeseing of everything. just been to much of a chicken. to deal with cold temps. and dealing with all the greese spigots.

engine oil change. should be good for another 4 months. i haven't ran it that much. and it doesn't leak engine oil.

and last but goodie!

thank you everyone for help and feedback!
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c? #19  
boggen said:
as far as the stall test, sounds enough.

but one problem. i know there is a couple types of RPM spinner gauges. some that just touch push up against end of the main shaft. and others that you push up against the side of the shaft.

but the only spots that might be avilable. to use either one is. some how pushing something through front of tractor back to the hyd pump.

or getting everything warmed up first then disconnecting the Vbelt, that runs fan, alternator. turn tractor back on. and pushing a spinner RPM gauge down on the shaft between hyd pump and engine.

and last but least thing i can think of, would be buying an RPM gauge like cars / trucks have. and some how hooking it up *looks confused*

========================
i will re take a look back at the oil coolers. and see if the tran mission oil cooler is plugged up with stuff.

I'm guessing you don't have a tach, or if you do, it's not working. The stall test should be done from the operators position with a functioning tach.

If there is only an hour meter in the instrument panel, a NH tach/hour meter can be installed.

Good luck with the work you have planned.
 
   / hydraulic oil system cleaning 555c?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
feel rather embarrassed. ran the 555c today to do some extra grading for about 20 minutes and engine heat gauge went into the red rather quickly.

so i began taking things apart, and found the "oil cooler for transmission" directly behind the main oil cooler.

oil cooler was plugged up tight on half of it. and the main radiator for the engine was 3/4's packed. it looked like the reservoir for hyd oil the hose clamp was loose and allowing just a tiny bit of oil to drop down. onto the oil cooler for the transmission, and combined with dust, just plugged it. and then the fan just pulled the stuff back into the radiator and plugged it up as well.

the main oil cooler was just fine. and when i pushed the air hose nozzel from back side of the radiator, everything seemed ok. and as previous posts, i would of swore everything was nice and cleaned :eek:

o'well, live and learn. at least i now know i need to keep better eye on oil coolers and radiator, and hopefully just tightening the hose clamp did the trick.

===============
will still due the cleaning of the oils, but i guess i will be doing a full drain, then fill of oil, run for 10 hours, do a full drain, and refill and call it good enough, with exception of the one out rigger. hopefully i can operate it, and get what ever is in the line out.

thanks everyone for the replies.
 

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