Hydraulic Steering Problem

MossRoad · Sep 19, 2005

Does anyone have any experience with IH hydraulic steering on late 70’s models or any other unit, for that matter?

Our late 70’s IH2500B has hydraulic steering: a ram with two hoses. The rod runs all the way through the cylinder’s case. One end of the rod has a mount that attaches to the frame and a fitting on the mount to feed fluid down the center of the rod. The other end of the rod just has a fitting for the other hydraulic hose. The center of the case is attached to the steering mechanism. So, there are no hydraulic fittings on the cylinder’s case, it is fed through both ends of the rods. Never seen one like this before. Anyway, here’s the problem…

I can hardly turn the steering wheel with the tractor running. Just a little bit in each direction. Even if I lift the front wheels off the ground with the FEL, I cannot turn the wheel. So, I removed the ram and dropped the hoses in a bucket. With the tractor running, I can then turn the steering wheel easily with one finger. As I turn the wheel, hydraulic fluid comes out of one hose. When I turn it the other way, fluid comes out of the other hose. This is expected. However, I was expecting the fluid to come out at great pressure. It does not. It comes out in good volume, but should it be under great pressure? Or, since the cylinder is removed, there is nothing to push against, so there will be no pressure at that point?

I’m going to have the cylinder tested at a local shop, just to make sure it is O.K. before I start tearing out the steering valve but wondered if anyone had any suggestions or similar problems. Thanks in advance.

slowrev · Sep 19, 2005

I am familiar with older hydriostatic steering systems from IH. Your steering pressure is quite a bit lower than you lift pressure. You either have a seperate steering pump or a priority flow divider.
This flow divider routes fluid to the steering system with it's own pressure relief valve. This valve could be stuck open.

First question does the engine have one or two pumps on it? Some were stacked piggyback.

Also with this type of steering you should be able to steer with difficulty with the engine not running. As the steering wheel shaft is connected to a "hand" pump, that should operate the cylinder.

Ben

MossRoad · Sep 19, 2005

I was looking at the hydraulic schematic and there is a flow divider. The steering pump gets 3GPM and some other pump gets 9 or 12 GPM. But I didn't read anything about pressure, just GPM.

I've just started degreasing and de-gunking everything. The unit is hydrostatic, so I believe all hydraulics are located internal, IE, no external steering pump. I followed the lines from the steering ram to the steering valve under the dash. I will now have to follow the lines from the steering valve and see where they go. I believe they go into the hydrostatic tranny. I'm at work, now, and will have to check tonight when I get home. Thanks for the feedback.

slowrev · Sep 19, 2005

What you are calling a steering valve might actually be a pump, as I said this enables hard steering with the engine not running.

On the ih Hydrostatic steering... It is the first thing to go out if you have fluid level problems or suction screen/filter problems.

Ben

Charolais · Sep 19, 2005

I had a 574 IH. with the same type cylinder. Had the end of the rod to break off. The steering was good up to that point. So I called and got a price on a new cylinder. Shazammmmm $825!!! Well I wasn't going to buy a new cylinder after all. Called Rice salvage yard up near Danville. He had one for $250 and had taken it to a IH dealer shop and had it repacked. I bought that one. Once I got it on,the steering was OK unless I had a load on the FEL. Couldn't turn the front wheels unless the tractor was moving. I always thought the cylinder was blowing by even though it had been repacked. I know the used cylinder had lots more hours on it than the one I had. The clevis holes was worn much more than the one I took off.

Never had seen a cylinder with the hollow rod before and hope I never have to deal with another. Mine was pretty hard to take off and put back on. It was a real tight fit.

I guess you have checked the front steering linkage with the tractor front up off the ground. With the cylinder disconnected you should be able to move the wheels front left to right by hand pretty easy. I have seen the steering arms get bound up with hard grease and cause the steering to be real hard to turn too.I helped a neighbor with a MF that was like that. He couldn't remember the last time he greased it. It sure locked up when it got dry too.

Hope you don't have to buy many new IH parts. Those 70's model parts are like buying gold. Darn good tractors but high priced parts made me trade.

MossRoad · Sep 20, 2005

Gee, Uh, thanks for the good news. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 I guess you have checked the front steering linkage with the tractor front up off the ground. With the cylinder disconnected you should be able to move the wheels front left to right by hand pretty easy. 

Oops. Guess I'll try that, just to be sure. Sometimes the obvious just doesn't hit me. That's why I ask for help. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll let you know in a couple days... kid has sports after work and I'd rather watch her than that tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Soundguy · Sep 20, 2005

( OK unless I had a load on the FEL. Couldn't turn the front wheels unless the tractor was moving. I always thought the cylinder was blowing by even though )

That's my first thought. I've seen a cyl have blowby.. then hyd lock and not steer..

Just a guess..

Soundguy

MossRoad · Sep 23, 2005

I found a rebuild kit for the cylinder for $42.00. It includes all the O rings, washers, wipers, etc... for the entire cylinder. Will pick it up tomorrow and hopefully start working on it Sunday.

I'm fortunate that I have all the parts manuals for this tractor, however, we have a pretty good IH place in a small town nearby, that has yet to fail me. Good folks. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Sep 26, 2005

I'm going to take this over to the IH forum since it is starting to get specific.

MossRoad · Sep 26, 2005

I couldn't get to the cylinder rebuild over the weekend, but I did manage to lift the front tires off the ground with the FEL and check that the steering was free. It is not. It seems that the right front tire cannot be turned left or right. I disconnected the steering linkage from the top of the spindle and there appears to be quit a bit of rust around there. I cannot get any grease to go into the zerk on the vertical spindle housing, either. The zerk appears to be the pressed in type, as there is no nut on the edges to put a wrench on it. So, how do you remove these types of zerks? I suspect I will have to remove the entire spindle/hub assembly and replace the bushings and bearing. Any hints?