Hydraulics squealing when I float the bucket

[Blstr88]

I had posted this in the LS forum but someone suggested I try here.

A little back story. I have an LS J2023H, got a front mount snowblower for it this winter season. Halfway through winter I was blowing my driveway and the joystick to lift/lower/angle the blower broke. Pulled the boot off and a small little piece that kinda holds the joystick steady, giving it something to push/pull off of, broke. So I removed the joystick and was able to lift/lower/angle the blower by just pushing/pulling on the valves by hand (or by using a small screwdriver to pull it).

Anyway, started the search for replacement parts...long story short, no replacement parts available, so I bought an entire control lever off of surpluscenter.com for $200.

In the meantime, I noticed when I pushed the valve in all the way to float the snowblower it would float...but the hydraulics would whine, like they were working hard. Basically the same whine as when Im lifting a load with the loader...or using the loader to lift the front tires...except it now just whines like that when its in float mode. As far as I can tell its still floating...doesn't appear to be any down pressure but its hard to tell, the blower is too heavy to just lift by hand anyway really. However if it was pressuring down I think it would have been digging in a lot harder...it appeared to me to still be floating.

Anyway, I had hoped to just replace the entire control valve when the new one showed up...thinking the issue must be with the control valve? Unfortunately the new valve uses SAE hydraulics fittings and my current one uses regular banjo bolts...so they arent compatible (at least not unless I have the fittings on all my hydraulic hoses swapped to SAE). Luckily all the little inner parts I needed to fix the joystick swapped right over perfectly, so the joystick is fixed...however something is still wrong with my float.

Am I right assuming it must be the control valve itself? Any ideas at all where to start?

 

[RNeumann]

The noise could be your pressure relief relieving. Does the bucket/blower continue to push down- maybe at a very slow rate?

 

[Blstr88]

The noise could be your pressure relief relieving. Does the bucket/blower continue to push down- maybe at a very slow rate?

It may be, the piston for the up/down on the snowblower is way too small to lift the front of the tractor up by itself so even if its getting down pressure it would be hard to tell. The bucket would lift the front tires up but the snowblower wouldnt.

Currently the snowblower is still on it...I'll be swapping back over to my bucket in the next week or so.

If it is still pushing down does that indicate any particular issue?

 

[RNeumann]

Their should be some covers on the end of the valve where you can inspect and clean the detent for the float function.

 

[Blstr88]

Their should be some covers on the end of the valve where you can inspect and clean the detent for the float function.

Makes sense. I'll take a look when I get a chance, if theres a way to get into it to clean it hopefully it'll be that easy.

Perhaps when the rubber boot was off for a few weeks and I was lifting/lowering the hydraulics by hand some dirt found its way in there somehow? It started when the boot was off and I was manually operating it...so could be.

 

[RNeumann]

See page 10- that’s my guess anyway...... theirs other who know way more than me though!!

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/valves/LvManual.pdf

 

[davedj1]

In stock form, the joy stick, when you push to float does any other valve body move? In other words when you push forward to push one valve in does it lift the opposite side? With a broken joy stick and you manually pushing in the one valve and maybe another valve needs to be lifted? Just a thought.

 

[Blstr88]

No, there's only two valves...one gets pushed in/pulled out by pushing the joystick up/down and the other gets pushed in/out by pushing the joystick left/right. Going up with the joystick lowers the bucket...but pushing it just a little further until it "clicks" locks it in float.

I'm going to try pulling the float detent apart...hopefully I can get it cleaned up and put back in without any issue, the diagram makes it look like there are a lot of small parts/springs in there...wish me luck!

If thats a no-go my next idea is to search wide and far for adapters to use the new control valve with my current hydraulic fittings.

 

[Xfaxman]

If you put a pressure gauge on a tee, plugged into the P connector on the loader, you can see if the relief valve is opening.

This is mine with flat face connectors to match my machines:

Plugged inline to show operating pressure:

 

[Leejohn]

What valve did you order from SC ?

 

[Blstr88]

What valve did you order from SC ?

This one:

2 Spool 12 GPM Joystick Loader Control Valve | Joystick Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

 

[Leejohn]

Are you sure the boom is on the #2 spool that has the float. The other valves have #1 spool with the float.

 

[Blstr88]

The valve I bought from surplus was never installed - I never took the factory valve off the tractor. I just scavenged the joystick parts off the new valve to use on the factory one.

The bucket is functioning correctly, lifting/lowering and curling as it always has, so the hoses must be hooked up correctly.

 

[oldnslo]

Blstr88
Did the float function work properly prior to the linkage breaking? If yes then I would suspect something is preventing the spool from shifting fully into float position.

 

[Blstr88]

Blstr88
Did the float function work properly prior to the linkage breaking? If yes then I would suspect something is preventing the spool from shifting fully into float position.

Yes. The linkage broke, so I removed the boot/joystick parts and continued to use it for another few weeks just pushing/pulling on the valves by hand. It was while the joystick was off of it that it started doing this.

Yes it does seem like its clicking into float but not going fully into float.

 

[Xfaxman]

With the snow blower off, raise the lift arms all the way. When they stop moving up you should hear the squeal and the engine should slow slightly. As soon as it squeals put it in float. It should lower slowly. Does it squeal right away or when it gets to full down? Does the squeal sound the same as full up?

 

[Blstr88]

With the snow blower off, raise the lift arms all the way. When they stop moving up you should hear the squeal and the engine should slow slightly. As soon as it squeals put it in float. It should lower slowly. Does it squeal right away or when it gets to full down? Does the squeal sound the same as full up?

Ok, so I did what you suggested. I raised the bucket all the way and at the very top when it stopped, as long as I held the joystick down...it squealed, yes.

When I put it into float it begins squealing again as the bucket slowly lowers to the ground. It squeals the whole way down, the bucket contacts the ground and appears to be floating correctly, and it continues squealing until I take it out of float.

And yes, the squeal at full up and the squeal while it floats down sound the same. I took a video...if I can figure out where to host it I'll post that up.

 

[RNeumann]

If the squealing is the same noise it’s the bypass “bypassing” fluid which makes the noise. If that noise is happening in float maybe fluid is being forced to bypass instead of using the return.......in other words it isn’t dumping the fluid back through the return. Someone who knows more about spools should weigh in but I assume a disassembly and inspection of that spool would be in order.

 

[aczlan]

Anyway, I had hoped to just replace the entire control valve when the new one showed up...thinking the issue must be with the control valve? Unfortunately the new valve uses SAE hydraulics fittings and my current one uses regular banjo bolts...so they arent compatible (at least not unless I have the fittings on all my hydraulic hoses swapped to SAE). ?

Did you try the fittings? If I remember correctly, SAE and some banjo bolts are interchangeable.

Am I right assuming it must be the control valve itself? Any ideas at all where to start?

It certainly sounds like a control valve problem, a very strange one though.

I would probably start with putting a pressure gauge inline with the circuit that has float or on the pressure input to the valve and see what kind of pressures you are getting when you put it into float.

Aaron Z

 

[davedj1]

I don't think you are getting the valve pushed all the way into the actual float portion. Just my humble .02
Is it possible the linkage isn't pushing it in far enough? Or could something have gotten in there?