Hydro or Shuttle

[MikePA]

Looking at a Farmtrac tractor. 360DTC. It's a 39 hp. Mainly will be used for small snow plowing/removal and light landscaping. Want this size due to ease on lawns.

For these applications, get a hydro. Many people will post that hydros are more prone to breaking, but they almost never post any data, i.e., they're repeating old wives tales. Ignore them.

Rule of thumb;

Ground engaging, wide open spaces - gear
Close in maneuvering, back and forth or lots of loader work - hydro

It's not that one wont work, it's what's easier.

Just as important, if not more so, it local dealer support and service.

 

[Grrrr]

I have always thought that gear was the way to go and that Hydro wasn't really up to much.

Then I got my first Hydro and I love it; even though it is only a Garden Tractor.

I love being able to have to pedals and be able to shuttle forwards and backwards without changing gear or anything. It is sooo easy compared to clutch work

But would I swap the tractors we use on the farm for proper tractor work like ploughing or spraying or baling?

Yes and no. On some jobs it would be really nice to slightly speed up or slow down but sometimes i just like the brute force of a gear like when ploughing. But that's why we have Power Shift CVT transmissions on big tractors

I think it all depends on what you do as others have said.

And I don't think our tractors will be changing to hydros anytime soon

 

[curly]

> 12x12 Synchronized Transmission
The fully synchronized shuttle and synchronized transmission provides smooth and easy shifting on the move. The DK55 transmission features 12 forward and 12 reverse gears to handle all kinds of jobs.

What exactly does this mean? I use the clutch on everything...even the gears withing a H/M/L setting.

 

[Grrrr]

> 12x12 Synchronized Transmission
The fully synchronized shuttle and synchronized transmission provides smooth and easy shifting on the move. The DK55 transmission features 12 forward and 12 reverse gears to handle all kinds of jobs.

What exactly does this mean? I use the clutch on everything...even the gears withing a H/M/L setting.

It basically means that the gears don't crunch and make lots of funny noises when you try to move the gear selector.

If you try to move the gear stick on an unsynchronized tractor while it is still rolling while the clutch is disengaged the gears will grind before they engage. This is because the gears are still spinning and you have to wait for them to come to a stop before you can change. Most older tractors had unsynchroed boxes, like older Massies (135, 165)

On a syncro gearbox the gears are all spinning at the same speed in the box so you can move the gear stick in to any gear while moving. It is like a car gear box. The gear box has idlers to make the gears spin at the same speed as the one you are about to engage it to.

You still have to clutch.

A syncro is much nicer to drive

 

[Keith_B]

It basically means that the gears don't crunch and make lots of funny noises when you try to move the gear selector.

If you try to move the gear stick on an unsynchronized tractor while it is still rolling while the clutch is disengaged the gears will grind before they engage. This is because the gears are still spinning and you have to wait for them to come to a stop before you can change.

It sure didn't take much movement to make those gears grind either!!

 

[curly]

Ahaa, thanks

 

[HTWT]

I have a NH 1620 hydro with over 5000 hr. I replaced the hydro pump at 2400 hr. not because it needed to be changed bug because the tractor was split and the most expensive part of replaceing it is splitting the tractor. I have had 0 problems with my hydro. If you are doing loader work or running equipment off the PTO it great to adjust your ground speed and keep your PTO speed up. It is easier to tight work and remain in control of your equipment. I constantly change ground speed with my Harley rake to change what I am trying to accomplish.

 

[john_bud]

It is pretty rare for a gear tranny to have any problems.

How many folks have hydro tractors with 4-8000 hours of operation for which to compare maintenance costs?

Yes, it is pretty rare for a gear trans to have problems. However, they do break. Typically, it's from operator abuse. "Speed shifting", "clutch popping" and "rocking" the machine forward and backwards are the usual gear breakers. Snapping off a single tooth can lead to nearly every gear, shaft and countershaft damaged as the broken parts dance around like pinballs. Check out e-bay over time and you will find many machines that "run good, trans broke". You just don't get that type of damage from operator abuse from an HST with it's very low shock loads and not having gears that can be partially engaged.

What is the actual factual real deal? Gotta be honest here, I don't know. I do know what I posted and did talk to the repair shops at Kubota, Deere and FNH dealers. They all stated that the hydros were about the least common thing to repair. They also gave the strong impression that most major problems were either operator induced or assembly errors. They wouldn't just come out and say that the customers were just too stupid to operate the tractors correctly, but that's what they were implying!

Good news is that nearly every option you choose will be pretty dern reliable. Straight gear, shuttle, hydro-shuttle, HST or even CVT -- they are all about dead reliable. At least among the top shelf companies. I have reservations about the 2nd and 3rd tier companies and wouldn't waste spit on a china / russian tractor - but that's as much political as anything else.

Everyone has opinions on what is the "best". What ever your personal opinion is, that's the correct one for you.

enjoy,
jb

 

[Bob_Young]

Oh, boy. The debate's raging again. Still, I learn a little more every time this starts up.

As far as the OP's needs, I have to agree with the hydro crowd in this case. Loader work is much easier, on both tractor and operator, with hydro. I doubt Farmtrac is into PowerShift of HydroShuttle gear transmissions yet, so the 360 is probably dry clutch with (maybe) a synchronized throw between one of the forward ranges and the reverse range. That could work, but clutch longevity will depend on the operator.

One thing that's seldom mentioned in these debates is operator skill in using a clutch. These days, not everyone is well versed in efficient clutch operation. On gear tractors, this can make a big difference on how long the clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing combination will last.

Even though I know that the clutch system will last the longest if I keep my foot off the clutch as much as possible (except when changing gears); it's easy and sometimes almost necessary to regulate the rate of forward progress with the clutch slippage when entering the pile with a loader. This puts wear on the clutch lining at a rapid rate. It takes a fair amount of discipline, when doing loader work with gears, to keep the foot off the clutch 'til the last instant and regulate speed with the foot throttle.

In addition, riding around with the foot on the clutch pedal keeps the throwout bearing spinning leading to its premature failure. Once the throwout bearing starts to go, the pressure plate release fingers bear the brunt of the abuse. It's surprising how many people operate gear (or stick shift) vehicles keeping their foot on the clutch. That being the case, if you have hired help (or Mom or the kids) operating your machinery, you're probably better off with hydro even if you are deft with a clutch.
FWIW
Bob

 

[JerryG]

1. Manual Shift: plain old standard shift transmission. No synchronizers thus you have to stop and clutch for each gear change. You can稚 shift on the go without grinding gears. Usually have 6-8 forward gears and 1-2 reverses.

2. Synchro-Shift: Basically the same as the manual shift except it has synchronizers and can be shifted on the go. The clutch should always be used for starts, stops as well as shifting. Usually has 6-8 forward gears and 1-2 reverses.

3. Shuttle-Shift or Synchro-Shuttle: This is a standard transmission that may have as many gears in reverse as forward. There is lever on the left of the steering that performs the forward to reverse gear change. Most Shuttle Shifts have some synchronized gears or they may be fully synchronized. The clutch must be used to start, stop and change directions. Usually has 9, 12 or 16 gears in each direction. May have a gear as low as ｼ MPH on the 16 speed models.

4. Power-Shuttle: With this Standard transmission, you can change forward to reverse directions and also start and stop without using the clutch. Most if not all Power Shuttle transmissions have fully synchronized gears. Usually has 9, 12 or 16 gears in each direction. May have a gear as low as ｼ MPH on the 16 speed models. (JD calls this a Power Reverser)

5. Power-Shift: This standard transmission has all of the benefits of the power shuttle as well as being able to shift between gears without the clutch. It can be started, stopped, changed from forward to reverse and the gears shifted without the clutch. Usually has 9, 12 or 16 gears in each direction. May have a gear as low as ｼ MPH on the 16 speed models. (Massey Ferguson痴 DynaQPS is a powershift and Kubota痴 GST is essentially a powershift.)