Hydro problem/KL401 loader . . .

mark.r · May 28, 2008

Strange issue. If I roll the bucket back while it's sitting on the ground and then go stand on the cutting edge, the bucket will flex up and down as if it is being dumped. It won't go through the full dump/roll back cycle but only a about 6-8 inches. My question is, is this a symptom of low hydraulic fluid?

JoelD · May 28, 2008

Sounds like it maybe wear in the pins and bushings (not sure if you've got bushings). There is bound to be some slack in the joints. My old Kubota had about 4-5 inches of play in the bucket. Post some picks of the up-right position and then the "you standing on the bucket" position. Could be acceptable slack.

If your hydro fluid was low you'd hear the pump wining and looking for fluid. The hydraulics would be super slow.

mark.r · May 28, 2008

JoelD said:
Sounds like it maybe wear in the pins and bushings (not sure if you've got bushings). There is bound to be some slack in the joints. My old Kubota had about 4-5 inches of play in the bucket. Post some picks of the up-right position and then the "you standing on the bucket" position. Could be acceptable slack.

If your hydro fluid was low you'd hear the pump wining and looking for fluid. The hydraulics would be super slow.

Wear? Already!!!! I would assume some acceptable slack but it just seems like ALOT of lower cylinder movement from the dump cylinders. I just don't remember it being nearly this bad.

JoelD · May 28, 2008

Are the pistons actually moving in and out of the cyls.? or, is it slack in the pivot points? If the pistons are moving in and out, and the machine will curl the cyls then possibly the packing in the cyls, you'd have to have a significant packing failure for you to be able to manually move the cyls.

Picks would help.

mark.r · May 28, 2008

JoelD said:
Are the pistons actually moving in and out of the cyls.? or, is it slack in the pivot points? If the pistons are moving in and out, and the machine will curl the cyls then possibly the packing in the cyls, you'd have to have a significant packing failure for you to be able to manually move the cyls.

Picks would help.

Yep, you nailed it. Another example is I can partilly have the bucket dumped, maybe halfway with the it in the air. I then can press the cutting edge into the ground as if I'm going to do some back grading with the cutting edge. As I press the bucket into the ground the bucket will start to roll back maybe 6 inches or more without using the lever.

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow, although I'm not quite sure if pics will be able to display what I'm trying to show.

kennyd · May 28, 2008

Here are my thoughts: You do not have any problem at all...you just have a 3-way FEL valve and not a 4-way valve. Read the difference HERE.

mark.r · May 28, 2008

kennyd said:
Here are my thoughts: You do not have any problem at all...you just have a 3-way FEL valve and not a 4-way valve. Read the difference HERE.

Hmmm, I won't disagree, sounds plausible. I just have NEVER notice it before. I'd be curious to hear if this symptom applies to other KL401 owners.

PA hayseed · May 28, 2008

mark.r said:
Hmmm, I won't disagree, sounds plausible. I just have NEVER notice it before. I'd be curious to hear if this symptom applies to other KL401 owners.

I have been having some issues with my FEL lately. Seems like its not dumping completely sometimes, sticks with about 3-4 inches of movement left. I have about 103 hours on it last I looked. I have been using it pretty hard lately, but that is what it was bought for. Fluid levels are ok, grease it regularly, did maintenance at interval. The other problem, that I thought I had fixed, is that the FEL lever keeps spinning, then locking up again.

I don't have the same issue as you, but we both have the same rig.

contdevelop · May 28, 2008

This is interestng, I actually just welded some hooks on my loader bucket and while standing in the bucker noticed the same play but never checked to seee where the slack is. My Ck30HST is brand new and only has 30 hours on it. I will check tomorrow to see where the slack is.

dfkrug · May 28, 2008

It seems to me, MARK, that for the regen function to work, the FEL
valve joystick has to be moved. Does the KL401 have a self-leveling bucket?

mark.r · May 29, 2008

dfkrug said:
It seems to me, MARK, that for the regen function to work, the FEL
valve joystick has to be moved. Does the KL401 have a self-leveling bucket?

No self-leveling bucket on the KL401.

Patches · May 29, 2008

The KL1231 loader on my 3054 does the same thing? I thought it might be air in the cylinders and was going to try bleeding them; now I don't have to, as it appears to be a common problem

mark.r · May 29, 2008

Patches said:
The KL1231 loader on my 3054 does the same thing? I thought it might be air in the cylinders and was going to try bleeding them; now I don't have to, as it appears to be a common problem

My dealer is literally right up the street from my house so at lunch I am going to go talk to them and see what their thought is. I doesn't seem normal to me. Should be a warranty fix in my opinion.

mark.r · May 30, 2008

Talk to two dealers and explained the issue and both said something sounds "off". I guess I'll take it to the dealer next week as much as HATE to do it. They end up keeping the tractor for like a week everytime I take it to them. Kind of hard to run a business without one of you main tools.

Patches · Jun 2, 2008

Post their answer to the problem, if you would . Used my 3054 today and it is still doing "it", although not consistantly

Hopefully, it's an easy fix, as mine is way out of warranty

JoelD · Jun 2, 2008

Patches said:
The KL1231 loader on my 3054 does the same thing? I thought it might be air in the cylinders and was going to try bleeding them; now I don't have to, as it appears to be a common problem

The system should be self bleeding, don't think you could end up with air in your cyls. or anywhere else for that matter.

someone please let me know if I am wrong.

Thanks,
Joel

JoelD · Jun 2, 2008

Not sure what you are experiencing. Can you shoot a video and possibly post on the web or, if coming to cookout, bring the video with you?

If you are dumping a load, the load can push the cyls down faster than the oil can recover, when this happens, there can be a pause for the oil to catch up. In other words, you dump a heavy load, then go to dump further, it takes a second for the bucket to react.

When you step into the bucket, do the pistons literally move in or out of the cyls?

Joel

contdevelop · Jun 2, 2008

From what i know and my experience abot hydraulics, just by working the cylinder the air is automatically bled out. I still need to look closer on my CK30 to see where the slack is. I didnt pay any attention to see if its the pins and bushings or the cylinder. IF the problem is hydraulic in nature it is probably somewhere in the valve body. I would like to hear what a dealer/ mechanic has to say on the problem.

mark.r · Jun 2, 2008

Patches said:
Post their answer to the problem, if you would . Used my 3054 today and it is still doing "it", although not consistantly Hopefully, it's an easy fix, as mine is way out of warranty

Ironically, I used it today to turn my manure pile and it didn't seem bad at all. When I was finished I parked the tractor back in the shed and had the bucket curled back with the cutting edge off the ground and the "heel" on the ground. I stood on the cutting edge and it would not budge. I jiggled the lever side to side to relive the pressure thinking that would "bring back the problem" but no dice. It only allowd the bucket to move just slight . . . what I would call within the tolerances of the normal play of the all the hinges/connection points/ brackets/etc. Go figure, I don't know what to think now.

JoelD · Jun 2, 2008

My thought is, for there to be a hydraulic problem bad enough that you could move by hand, you'd have not power to curl any kind of load.

I am thinking you are good.

Joel