I got last load of horse hay bales today.

[Hay Dude]

Sure would make life easier if we could get those prices here. If we have a surplus to sell during the winter it’s $4.50 1st and $6 for 2nd

4x4 1st cutting round bales $50 and they are just starting to move. As far as I know we are the highest price seller in the area.

That’s incredible.
When I did small squares, I felt like we hay farmers were our own worst enemy. No matter how low the price was, there was always someone cheaper. It was a “race to the bottom”.
About 10 years ago, there was a cheap old hag with a bunch of 1/2 dead yard ornaments. She would tell the same lie that there was a guy selling for $3.50/bale if you were selling at $5/bale. She would tell every farmer that and farmers would bring their prices down.
I saw the writing on the wall and switched to big bales. Buyers are a little better because they aren’t home owners trying to own more horses than they should.
Not saying I have all the info or can’t get took, but I feel a bit more comfortable selling in the “commercial markets” like beef cattle ranchers and mushroom hay. I only have 3 horse hay customers, but they are fair minded and reasonable.

 

[LHF2019]

About 10 years ago, there was a cheap old hag with a bunch of 1/2 dead yard ornaments. She would tell the same lie that there was a guy selling for $3.50/bale if you were selling at $5/bale. She would tell every farmer that and farmers would bring their prices down.

If a person like that came here I would just tell them, then go buy them.

The out of the field this year is $3 - 1st
and $4 - 2nd squares. We bumped the 2nd price $.25 as well as the prebuy and stored hay price. Slowly getting prices where they need to be but never where it should be. Had a new customer that is on the waiting list for 120 4x4 round bales of 2nd. That is going to be a hard order to add in.

 

[D&D]

How many of you know exactly how much it costs to produce one bale of hay?
Quite a few of the locals love to spit out costs, while never telling of profits. What really is a "fair" price per unit?
I can make money at $5 for small squares (21 pack), $40 for 4x4 rounds and $70 for large squares. The local market average is 9-10 for small squares, 50 for 4x4 and 120 for large squares.
And yes, I know everyone loves to charge extra for "horse people". Some of them just can't be pleased.

 

[D&D]

I saw the writing on the wall and switched to big bales. Buyers are a little better because they aren’t home owners trying to own more horses than they should.

Wow

 

[Hay Dude]

Wow

Wow what?

 

[LHF2019]

How many of you know exactly how much it costs to produce one bale of hay?
Quite a few of the locals love to spit out costs, while never telling of profits. What really is a "fair" price per unit?
I can make money at $5 for small squares (21 pack), $40 for 4x4 rounds and $70 for large squares. The local market average is 9-10 for small squares, 50 for 4x4 and 120 for large squares.
And yes, I know everyone loves to charge extra for "horse people". Some of them just can't be pleased.

That is a very loaded question. So many variables and what do you want calculated? Land rent cost or you own it and taxes. Lime and fertilizer costs. Costs of putting in a field. How many years are you going to factor that in. Your time. Equipment. Bare minimum and old. Or in my case more than needed but when the weather is right boy can we move. What’s the cost of getting hay made fast to get the best quality you can get to the customer to retain that customer as well as getting that cutting off so you can get the next one growing.

Here is a conversation I had on a different forum.

I looked into upgrading my small square baler. Little background. Everything I researched with using an accumulator, it recommends using an inline. Just keeps everything consistent. I did not heed that advise and bought my square baler and tedder as a package deal. If your dealing with high volume crops we have found that bale inconsistencies exist and are annoying. We run 10ft discbines but when we rake we have to take 13 ft into the windrow in order to give the tractor enough room to pass a dropped bundle without driving on it. I knew someday I would upgrade to an inline.

I'm also into the technology that is coming out for square balers. When I saw NH advertise there it was only a matter of time before Massey would have something available.

With having a real winter I have spent sometime browsing and found that Massey offers the SimplE bale system
file:///C:/Users/Chris/Downloads/SimplEbale_Brochure_FA%2011.06.24%20(2).pdf

Then while I was looking at 1840 balers realized that my local dealer had a 3 year old leftover for $36,000 and after much contemplating I made a call. I tried to convince the sales rep that the dealer should get one of these balers into the field for advertisement. Round down the price to $30,000 then install the SimplEbale system. Well here is what I got back.

The leftover baler was gone so pricing went to brand new 1840 baler $46,462
Can't use the weigh system portion of SimplEbale so kit due to the accumulator so would just be the premium kit $6214.00
Integrated moisture system Harvest Tec star wheel sensor $3200
Setup of the SimplEbale system $2900

Bringing the price of a brand new high tech small square baler to $58,776

My quote says $51,572 If I went with the 7 year loan my payments would be $707 monthly. I can tell you that this deal is not happening. The good news with the SimplEbale system is it can be retrofitted to all 1840 balers so I see a used baler in my future.


I was asked if I felt it was worth the money for the integrated baling system.


I do, overtime as with anything. The biggest thing I would be looking for is the real time data on bale length and consistency giving you the ability to make adjustments in the field regards to speed. 2 windrows can look very similar, feed into the baler similar, but may just be enough difference in volume that your getting 1 extra flake per bale. What does that equate to over several acres? Some numbers.

The last 10 seasons with the current baler 133,445 bales
The last 5 seasons at our current acreage 77,967 bales
Lets say the system increases the last 5 seasons bale count 1% = 780 bales
For argument sake decrease it to 0.5% =390 bales
Average of 1st and 2nd field pickup price $1,390 increased revenue
Average of 1st and 2nd stored price $1,608 increased revenue
Average of 1st and 2nd winter sales price $2,145 increased revenue.

What our last 5 seasons of first cutting looked like and where I would hope we see the most return from the system

10732

11811

12788

4595

6063

2 seasons ago was the drought and last season sales were down and we brushhogged 30 acres. We also do round bales. Is there risk that it would take longer to pay for itself, absolutely. But, what if there was one stellar growing season and lets say I hit 13,000 bales sold using my 1st cutting out of field price only. 36 inch bale with 12 3"flakes but due to high yields we don't realize it but every bale has an extra flake.

Extra flake per bale 13,000 extra flakes
12 flakes per bale 1,083 extra bales that were made
Current out of field 1st cutting price $3250 increased revenue in one year.

What if ever single 1st cutting bale I made in the last 10 seasons had an extra flake. I know on average 1st cutting bales are longer than 2nd cutting.

10 seasons 81,529 bales
Extra flake per bale 81,529 flakes
12 flakes per bale 6,794 extra bales I am missing
Lost revenue at 1st cutting field pickup price $20,382
If only 50% of the bales are wrong. $10,191 lost revenue

Who measures every single bale. When I'm picking up bales I want to see consistent bales. But again what if they are all consistently inconsistent. Higher yields can do that. Looks close but is the bale on the left just a bit longer? Are they all longer and the one is longer yet?

We can do the what if all day long for the reasons for and against and that is only looking at one aspect of what that system has to offer. I think the one thing you would agree on is I like data and real numbers. Now imagine if I already had that system for the last 10 seasons. I know my bales that I handle and as with any baler there is inconsistencies but you see it after the fact. And how many of those bales are off by 1 flake. Those are the ones you don't see. It is those long ones that piss you off.


I know that this went off track to your question. There are so many variables to your question.

 

[5030]

Back when I was running serious acreage (which I'm not now because of my cancer issues), I looked hard at a Bale Baron but the price scared me away and then I sold my 575 High capacity idiot square producer, consolidated to one customer and went 100% net wrapped round bales and never looked back.

Nice Kuhn you have there. Looked at them as well. Passed on all of it simply because idiot squares are all manual labor and you cannot find young manual labor around here no matter how much you pay them. I spray it for weeds, fertilize it, cut it windrow it and round bale it and my one customer comes with his flatbed semi and I load it up and off he goes and pays me before the end of the year prior to taxes and I'm all good with it. been doing that for 5 years now. Just sprayed it with 24D-B to be exact.

Never whines about cost either. he knows what it takes to make good alfalfa hay. I get to hunt on his property as well and over the years we have become good friends.

Best part is no more low ballers and whiners. You want cheese with your whine, go elsewhere. It seemed that idiot cubes always brought out the whiners and low ballers. Rounds are different and because I have one customer who buys everything, I've eliminated most all the grief.

 

[5030]

I have a complete Harvestech system in the barn I never used and a 55 gallon drum of Greensaver as well if anyone is interested. There is about 45 gallons of greensaver in the poly drum fyi. Got the spray heads, the chemical tank and the control box complete. Greensaver has been stored in a heated room since I bought it. Thought I'd need it but never did. Drum is fricken heavy.

 

[Hay Dude]

Why are small squares “all manual labor”? We have 3 operations running 50,000+ small squares per year and most of the bales are accumulated/bundled never touched by human hands. Once baled & bundled they are stacked like large square bales in sheds. Comes time to sell, the bundles are pulled & loaded. We have a 3 man operation that makes 50K+ bales and the guys never get out of the tractor except to take a wizz, load twine or fuel up

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Looking back, my Dad had 3 horses on 7 acres then we got hay for them on 25 acres.
Thinking about it, it was far from correct. We cut with a sickle bar on a Farmall Cub, then raked into wind rows and he slowly drove along while I pitch forked it onto a trailer. The horse barn we made had one room with wood floor I forked it in load after load.
I can't remember him ever having soil tested or fertilized. Talk about a low budget operation!
Like anything there's a lot to it and expense doing it correctly.