I have a Ford Tractor and JD Lawn Tractor

[rayikeo2]

I am seeing a big differance in responses posted here and those posted in the JD Lawn & Garden forums. So I thought I would try here for a John Deere mower problem as I know I am not the only person that owns some of each brand and I have seen some familiar names over there with posts.
My LX279 lawn tractor has a run problem. It runs after starting with full choke on and will continue to run with about 1/2 choke, but will die when the choke is released. I don't know if it is a carb/ fuel tank problem or possible a fuel pump problem. The fuel pump is only 2 years old, replaced it when I had a similar problem. I have been mowing with wet grass because of all the rain. It ran good then slowly starting to act like cold starts, I had to warm up longer before engageing the mower. Then it died a couple times like it was out of gas but still had 2 gal in tank, I have new gas cap. Now it won't run without choke 1/2 on. Tried different gas and there was no change. Blew air back from gas filter to tank and it wasn't plugged. Put new hose from & filter to carb. I am leaning toward dirt in carb, any opinions will help.:confused2:

 

[barbqranch]

It may not solve your problem, but I would change the fuel filter first. Let a couple of pints of fuel run out into a clean glass jar to see if it is clean before putting the new filter on.

 

[JC-jetro]

ray,

I have a bit issue like that with my front tine tiller as well. As probably every one knows the basic operation of a carburettor. The float , along with float needle valve maintain a fuel level in the carburetor, reciprocating action of piston causes a vacuum that draws the fuel in to a venturi, the reduction of the neck area causes velocity increase of the fuel helping with the vaporization of fuel before it goes in to piston to be burned and voila you got internal combustion engine operation. carburetors have fuel jets that meter amount of flow with addition of other port to allow easier starting. If the jets gets clogged due to precipitation of volatiles in the fuel causes a film build up hence reducing the flow of fuel. By chocking the carburetor you force the system to draw the fuel need by sucking harder , gasping for more. it may be okay to use the chock to compensate for fuel delivery for combustion but eventually the carb need to be opened up and cleaned and put back together. Most engine in small appliances have some governor system to adjust fuel flow under varying load condition. If your governor is not set right a bit of choking might help to keep the engine running. My guess is that you might have partial blockage somewhere in your carburetor.

JC,

 

[rayikeo2]

Thanks JC, I will look into that. Ray

 

[rayikeo2]

I have changed fuel filter and new hose from the filter to the fuel pump. Got a qt jar filled with new gas and put the new filter into it to make sure it was getting good gas. It ran the same drawing new fuel from the jar. I let it run for 10 min with the choke 1/2 on. Still would not continue to run without choke. I am thinking this is a process of elimanation to rule out the tank, gas and fuel pump. That leaves me with the carb plugged? Now I need to know if the carb can be cleaned without removing from the engine. I have some carb and choke cleaner in a spray can. Any Ideas or helpful information?:confused2: Am I going to have to take it in to the shop?

 

[JC-jetro]

I have changed fuel filter and new hose from the filter to the fuel pump. Got a qt jar filled with new gas and put the new filter into it to make sure it was getting good gas. It ran the same drawing new fuel from the jar. I let it run for 10 min with the choke 1/2 on. Still would not continue to run without choke. I am thinking this is a process of elimanation to rule out the tank, gas and fuel pump. That leaves me with the carb plugged? Now I need to know if the carb can be cleaned without removing from the engine. I have some carb and choke cleaner in a spray can. Any Ideas or helpful information?:confused2: Am I going to have to take it in to the shop?

Depends on where the carb is. Just blowing carb cleaner in to intake filter areas at best might clean a sticky throttle valve ( a metal round disk that controls the air flow), but it would not do anything for the fuel jet cleaning. You might be able to take the fuel bowl out without carb removal. If you can do that then you might spray some cleaner in the fuel jet area to clean it. you might be able to remove the jet and clean without carb removal. I'll add a few pics that might help you. Your carb might not be exactly what i show but the concept is the same. it is a Honda carb on my push mower.

JC,

 

[rayikeo2]

Nice pictures, I hope you didn't go out and tear your mower down to show me. Mine looks similair and I have removed the bowl where the float is but didn't see any blockage in that area. Sprayed some carb cleaner where the gas comes into the float. The bowl was full of gas when I removed it. My problem may be in the gas intake area where the gas from the fuel pump enters the carb, that is harder to get to. Your picture of the float. I didn't take the float off and remove the valve (pictured). What is the tube parts (2) under the bowl and how did you remove them? I don't have a technical manual, might have to spent $60 for a cd or $120 for a printed tech manual. There are 3 things I would have to remove to take the carb off, Choke, Throttle and govener control. Mine is a Kawaski water cooled 2 cy 17 HP rider. Ray

 

[JC-jetro]

Nice pictures, I hope you didn't go out and tear your mower down to show me. Mine looks similair and I have removed the bowl where the float is but didn't see any blockage in that area. Sprayed some carb cleaner where the gas comes into the float. The bowl was full of gas when I removed it. My problem may be in the gas intake area where the gas from the fuel pump enters the carb, that is harder to get to. Your picture of the float. I didn't take the float off and remove the valve (pictured). What is the tube parts (2) under the bowl and how did you remove them? I don't have a technical manual, might have to spent $60 for a cd or $120 for a printed tech manual. There are 3 things I would have to remove to take the carb off, Choke, Throttle and govener control. Mine is a Kawaski water cooled 2 cy 17 HP rider. Ray

No Ray, I did not go out there to take a pic. I have pictorial archives of most of my repairs, tractor or otherwise and even my projects:ashamed:

Ray, fuel either goes by gravity in to the bowl or by pump depending on elevation difference between tank and carb. I think yours is pumped. bowl full of gas leads me to believe your float, needle valve and pump probably is working okay. on second pic the middle hole is the main jet. You need to have a screwdriver to take the jet off and right above it is a metering tube with holes. That's where I suspect you might have a blockage. Although you should not use a needle or a pin to clean the hole I use small strands from electrical wire (copper) to clean out the hole while spraying with carb cleaner. The hole in the main jet is where vacuum from engine sucks (withdraws) fuel out of the bowl. If you have room to get a screwdriver under it you might be able to do it without further dis-assembly.
JC,

 

[rayikeo2]

so are you saying the 2 brass parts laying on the red O is the main jet and the bottom piece is threaded and can be removed with a screw driver if there is enough room( there is), then the longer piece falls free? Then you clean the 2 tiny holes with a piece of copper wire. This cleans the main jets?:confused2: I do have a mechanical fuel pump that workes off the cam shaft with a pushrod. I replaced it 2 seasons back, I guess it could have went bad again but the last time it was leaking fuel from a vent. It is not leaking now.

 

[sld]

Ray,

Try some Seafoam in the tank. I have become a recent believer in the stuff for carbon issues and not adjustment issues.

It has been around a long time. I put it in all my yard equipment occasionally and it really cleared up my gas blower and weed eater.

 

[JC-jetro]

so are you saying the 2 brass parts laying on the red O is the main jet and the bottom piece is threaded and can be removed with a screw driver if there is enough room( there is), then the longer piece falls free? Then you clean the 2 tiny holes with a piece of copper wire. This cleans the main jets?:confused2: I do have a mechanical fuel pump that workes off the cam shaft with a pushrod. I replaced it 2 seasons back, I guess it could have went bad again but the last time it was leaking fuel from a vent. It is not leaking now.

Yers Ray, you are correct. Now what you see is Honda carb and I'm not sure if you have the second metering tube in there or not. Concept is the same. If you look at the 3rd picture you see two holes, the one on the side is where needle valve along with the float closes or opens fuel flow in to the bowl. The hole in the middle is the main jet. You might have just the jet as I have on my other small engines. if you do not have enough room down below it , then you might use a stubby short screwdriver. unscrew it counter clockwise and clean it. I would also put the small dia tube on the carb cleaner can and shoot carb cleaner thru the hole to clean it up if you have some varnish there. if you do not put gas stabilizer in the fuel over winter storage can cause issue with the carb.

JC,

 

[jinman]

Mine is a Kawaski water cooled 2 cy 17 HP rider. Ray

That's the problem. Your John Deere has a Polish engine.:laughing:

Sorry Ray, I couldn't resist making fun of your typo. In my opinion, you need to get that carb off and do a disassembly/cleaning of all jets and orifices. Having to half-choke an engine means the vacuum has to be increased to draw fuel into the engine. There's a good chance that fuel may not even be drawn in the normal way. I had a similar half-choke problem on an old mower and found that it was sucking fuel from a vent rather than the main jet orifice. Having to choke the engine is a sure sign of blockage making fuel feed nearly impossible or at least way too lean. I think any external treatment or even seafoam treatment in the gas is not going to be satisfactory. Seafoam is a good preventative, but your engine needs a 911 emergency repair. I think you'll have to remove it from the engine to be completely successful.

Is your JD dealer too far away or too expensive? They would surely have the most expertise in these engines and carb rebuild kits.

 

[rayikeo2]

Successful Repair, Thanks to everyone and JC's pictures. I took the carb bowl off and was able to spray clean the inside of the carb without removing it (the carb) from the tractor. What I found was little black rubber particles from the deteriation of the inside of the fuel hose from the filter to the carburator. I was able to spray it out of the carb and I have replaced the hose and filter. Yesterday I had put some sea foam in the tank and the air intake. I do not know if it had any part of cleaning the carb, but is sure didn't hurt anything. Put it all back togather and it started right up, ran smooth so I mowed my yard without a hitch. I want to thank everyone that gave me suggestions. Ray I.
Note 5/1/10 Sea Foam on sale at Orileys, buy 2 get one free.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Ray that is good news. I would not have thought about a fuel line rubber breaking down like that.

I buy Sea Foam by the gallon for old internally dirty fuel systems and engines but as jinman pointed out it NEVER fixes a physical blockage or damage.

 

[JC-jetro]

Successful Repair, Thanks to everyone and JC's pictures. I took the carb bowl off and was able to spray clean the inside of the carb without removing it (the carb) from the tractor. What I found was little black rubber particles from the deteriation of the inside of the fuel hose from the filter to the carburator. I was able to spray it out of the carb and I have replaced the hose and filter. Yesterday I had put some sea foam in the tank and the air intake. I do not know if it had any part of cleaning the carb, but is sure didn't hurt anything. Put it all back togather and it started right up, ran smooth so I mowed my yard without a hitch. I want to thank everyone that gave me suggestions. Ray I.
Note 5/1/10 Sea Foam on sale at Orileys, buy 2 get one free.

Good deal Ray,

I have done the on several occasions without complete dis-assembly of carb and it worked just fine like yours did. Take the carb off and you need gaskets and overhaul kit. Taking the throttle link and governor is not always easy. I leave total removal and overhaul when all fail.


JC,

 

[rayikeo2]

JC, We can always count on you for some expert advice, Thanks:thumbsup: Ray

 

[jinman]

Nice job Ray. Many of us cannot remove any part of the carb without taking it off our engines. I'm glad you found your blockage to be easily found and removed. I think ethanol in gasoline is responsible for many cases of rubber hose and other rubber parts deteriorating. I am having problems with the rubber seat on the float valve on my JD mower with a Briggs engine. When the valve sticks shut, I just put 30 psi air on the carb inlet hose and blow that little puppy open.

...and I think it's pretty darn funny that you left the JD forum and came to the NH forum where you found help from JC who coached you through the repair.:thumbsup:

 

[rayikeo2]

Nice job Ray. Many of us cannot remove any part of the carb without taking it off our engines. I'm glad you found your blockage to be easily found and removed. I think ethanol in gasoline is responsible for many cases of rubber hose and other rubber parts deteriorating. I am having problems with the rubber seat on the float valve on my JD mower with a Briggs engine. When the valve sticks shut, I just put 30 psi air on the carb inlet hose and blow that little puppy open.

...and I think it's pretty darn funny that you left the JD forum and came to the NH forum where you found help from JC who coached you through the repair.:thumbsup:

Jinman, I have found the JD Forum is very reluctant to give help and I know they have the answers. They were however more helpful this time than the time my fuel pump went bad because the gas cap was plugged and nobody would tell me that might be my problem. The vacuum created in the tank ruptured my fuel pump diaphragm. I knew the good old boys at Ford/Newholland would help me. Thanks Jinman :0)